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BYN not working on Parallels virtual machine


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Hi,

 

I downloaded a trial of BYN to use with my D750 on Parallels virtual machine (Windows XP SP2). I have Digicamcontrol working fine with my camera, but with BYN like with my old D90 is impossible to make it recognize my camera.

 

I thought my D90 was the problem, but now with my new D750 is the same problem. I had same problem with Beta, it sounded like you were going to test it and make it work on virtual machines like Digicamcontrol does (I know you use a different way to connect to the camera), but it doesn't work even now on final version of BYN.

 

Any chance you'll get this sorted out in the future?

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Guylain thanks for your reply   Because I'm stubborn I kept going on with tests. And I actually SOLVED the problem! (if anyone will have the same).   In Parallels the solution is to enable the US

Sadly, there are numerous Windows Programs that are very Useful (or Critical) to AP Imaging for which Apple OSX users find themselves unable to Use.  Most are stymied because of Issues that exist betw

Hi Guylain,     not a problem, if you need some testing on a d750 (that is good to test as well d610 and d810) let me know, you can take my address from my user account. About the live view, as yo

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Guylain thanks for your reply :)

 

Because I'm stubborn I kept going on with tests. And I actually SOLVED the problem! (if anyone will have the same).

 

In Parallels the solution is to enable the USB3 support (I have a latest generation USB3 Macbook with a powered USB3 hub on the mount with all my equipment connected). Enabling USB3 in Parallels solved the problem, now BYN can connect to the D750!

 

I suppose is because latest Parallels is native on USB3 and not old USB2 for Macbooks having USB3 ports?

 

Anyway it works, including USB bulb shutter release and Liveview. Hopefully will be useful to other Mac users wanting to use BYN (will report more as soon as I get clear sky and I get to test more into a real session).

 

Tested on Macbook Pro 15 latest expanded to full spec, Parallels latest, Windows XP SP3 32bit guest operating system, OSX Yosemite 10.10.4

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I'm not sure what the issue is :(

 

It is impossible for me to test all virtual machine permutations, in fact I don't test any virtual machines. I have several users using BYE and Canon DSLR un VM but I'm aware of any BYN users.

 

Does your camera connect without a VM?

 

Regards,

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Hi,

 

yes my camera works perfectly with and without VM. I actually can tell you the error is not about the Windows XP in the VM, because I have another instance with Windows 8 and it doesn't work as well with BYN.

 

Actually it works perfectly also in the VM just not in BYN. I use Digicamcontrol and other applications and they can find the camera, tether it, transfer pictures etc. It seems is a problem how BYN connects to it (native/Nikon SDK), you told me that beta was going to be changed and rewritten in the other way to be more compatible/stable.

 

If you want I'm ok doing some beta testing, I've done the same for Digicamcontrol, if you have any extended log/debug version I'm happy to test it. Parallels is arguably the most common VM on Macs, and I think once that is solved it would work also on VMWare.

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What I asked was if you camera does connect to BYN without a VM, in a native Windows OS.

 

I'm tied to using the Nikon SDK and I have no plans to rewrite it using another protocol such as the one DigiCam control uses :(

 

Is there a menu option in the D750 for communication? If yes it must not e set to PTP. Not sure of their is such an option on the D750.

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Hi,

 

 

thanks for your replies :) I tried it with Windows 8 on the same VM (Parallels), same problem. Camera works ok on a native Windows XP (no VM).

 

There's no communication option in the D750 for USB, it just works.

 

Thanks for explaining about the Nikon SDK, sadly it's (in)famously known to be very iffy...that's why it doesn't work (is a known issue) on VM because it requires unneeded and not standard privileged access.

 

Good luck with BYN, I'll keep using Digicam and the others (none of them using Nikon SDK, don't why you use that but I'm sure you have your good reasons :) You just miss about all the Mac world, that is quite big and growing.

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The decision to use the Nikon SDK was done early in the the process and it was done thinking it would be the most efficient way to communicate with the camera. As it turns out it does have its issues but for the most part it is very good... once the communication is established. Had I known what I know today I may have chosen PTP as a protocol, but it's to late now as it would require a complete rewrite of the camera interface module :(

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Thanks for explaining about the Nikon SDK, sadly it's (in)famously known to be very iffy...that's why it doesn't work (is a known issue) on VM because it requires unneeded and not standard privileged access.

 

Good luck with BYN, I'll keep using Digicam and the others (none of them using Nikon SDK, don't why you use that but I'm sure you have your good reasons :) You just miss about all the Mac world, that is quite big and growing.

 

Sadly, there are numerous Windows Programs that are very Useful (or Critical) to AP Imaging for which Apple OSX users find themselves unable to Use.  Most are stymied because of Issues that exist between Apple (OSX and BIOS) and VM Software - some successfully worked around through use of BootCamp instead of VM.  It's frustrating to see such Users complain to the Application Developer for failings of the OS and/or VM (or ultimately the OS Selection of that User) - the App Developer has nothing to do with those issues.

 

I'll wish you well with your usage of DigiCamControl as your AP Imaging App, but you'll be missing out on numerous Critical Features:

You get Image Control, including a Capture Plan Feature, but you get no integration to AstroTortilla for Plate-Solved Targeting nor to PHD/PHD2/MetaGuide for AutoGuiding and Dithering. Nor do you get Screen-Stretching/Curves Tools to go with the Histogram displays.

You get LiveView Display for Framing and Focusing, but no Point-Source Focusing Metrics (FWHM, HFD, StdDev) nor support for Bahtinov Focus Mask usage.  Nor do you get User-Configurable Reticules for your Framing tasks.

You get LiveView Capture that can be turned to Planetary Imaging Use, but does it implement a 5x (or 10x) Zoom or other provision to afford 1:1 Pixel Resolution.

You get no direct or indirect support for Drift Alignment, nor ASCOM Controls (another Windows-exclusive) to tweak Motorized Focusers or Nudge Mount Pointing or manage a Motorized Filter Wheel.

 

DigiCamControl offers numerous Features not implemented in BYN, even if most of those have little application toward AP Imaging.  But, given the list of AP Imaging-specific Features provided by BYN, you might want to explore other avenues toward Better OS Support on your chosen Apple PC/Laptop.  Or at least have the Grace to NOT ABUSE the Developer of BYN over the difficulties that you are experiencing...

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Hi,

 

I don't think I was not abusing anyone...quite the opposite I was a user wishing to pay and just reporting something, nothing else, because I'm not the only one at my astronomy club with this problem. And by all means the problem is not BYN but the Nikon SDK :)

 

Digicamcontrol has everything (planner, PHD drizzling integration, liveview) I need, other things are missing and others are unique to Digicam...anyway that's not the point, I just hope some day I'll be able to try BYN and on my actual setup, not going to change it because of one single software not working.

 

Let's hope maybe Nikon will solve the problem with the SDK :)

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Digicamcontrol has everything (planner, PHD drizzling integration, liveview)

 

Support for PHD Dithering in DigiCamControl - that I did not know (not listed on Features Page nor in downloadable Manual.pdf - but since have found it in a Site Search).  That is Good To Know, for while I'm a faithful BYE/BYN User, there are some Nikon DSLRs for which BYN is Not Supported because of the lack of SDK.  And for those Nikon DSLR Owners, it will be good to be able to point them toward DigiCamControl.

 

Thanks

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Yesterday I had some clear skies so I did some preliminary tests of BYN on Parallels VM/Windows XP 32bit and a Nikon D750.

 

So far the only 'bug' (I think) I discovered is this one:

 

- when shooting using shutter to any value apart from 'BULB', there's a problem. For example I select 5 (seconds), I click Preview or Start session, and BYN triggers the camera but starts the countdown only AFTER the 5 seconds are finished. So when the camera closes the mirror, BYN thinks the exposition is starting, while it just finished. So the countdown goes and in the meantime it says 'Downloading' (because the picture was taken already).

 

That means obviously that for a 30 secs exposure I have to wait 60 seconds total before going on. To solve it I have to leave Shutter on 'Bulb' and select the time (also if short like 5s) from the time of the exposure.

 

Anyone else having this problem? I tried enabling/disabling on camera the 'exposure delay' and 'mirror lock up' on or off to see if anything changes, but it doesn't work anyway.

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That's brilliant thank you, I'll report if I find anything else. I really enjoyed using it last night, quite useful interface functions (for me) in particular for the focusing, and it seems quite stable as well.

 

Are updates automatically checked by the program at startup? Or do I have receive emails if any new version?

 

Looking forward to test it further before trial expires so I can be sure and buy the license, it works really well.

 

Any chance (not sure is possible due to bandwidth over usb) to have a better LiveView preview? When zoomed in the quality is not comparable to the one obtained by zooming in on the screen of the camera, could be useful to have a higher quality video streamed in particular when collimating or focusing with a Bahtinov mask

 

Also adding something for collimation in the zoom box would be useful to many I think when they collimate using unfocused stars (a pattern might greatly help visual evaluation).

 

Thanks for quick replies! :)

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The image on the LCD during live view is what you see in BYN so I don't understand the degradation in quality :(

 

Some high end models do have exposure simulation, make sure to enable it. Disconnect the camera from the computer, turn live view on, click the ok button to turn live view simulation, connect the camera back to the computer... Is live view better?

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- when shooting using shutter to any value apart from 'BULB', there's a problem. For example I select 5 (seconds), I click Preview or Start session, and BYN triggers the camera but starts the countdown only AFTER the 5 seconds are finished. So when the camera closes the mirror, BYN thinks the exposition is starting, while it just finished. So the countdown goes and in the meantime it says 'Downloading' (because the picture was taken already).

 

That means obviously that for a 30 secs exposure I have to wait 60 seconds total before going on. To solve it I have to leave Shutter on 'Bulb' and select the time (also if short like 5s) from the time of the exposure.

 

Anyone else having this problem? I tried enabling/disabling on camera the 'exposure delay' and 'mirror lock up' on or off to see if anything changes, but it doesn't work anyway.

 

This is fixed, it will by in BYN 1.0.2 later this week.

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Are updates automatically checked by the program at startup? Or do I have receive emails if any new version?

 

To receive emails you need to subscribe to changes to the download file :)  You need to do this at each release.  So when you get a notification, you download the file and subscribe to changes to the new file version :)

 

Regards,

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Hi Guylain,

 

thanks for fixing that bug, cannot wait for new version it would save some time! I subscribed to file changes as you suggested and I'll do also for new versions.

 

I'll give the live view a test later. What I mean by minor quality is that basically live view zoom in BYN seems like a 'digitally zoomed in' version of the screen-fitting live view (like a digital zoom), and not a 'cropping' of the original high resolution live view. This does not happen using LiveView on the camera lcd.

 

This is very easily noticeable as I use a Bahtinov mask to focus: 'cropping in' the live view on the camera screen I can clearly see the diffraction spikes as I crop on the star more and more. Doing exactly the same thing (just after few seconds) using LiveView in BYN I cannot see the diffraction patterns, because the same star is just a 'blob' of giant pixels, just as the full resolution live view in BYN was 'digitally zoomed in' making those pixels giant instead of showing me a cropped version (I never zoom in more than 1:1).

 

I hope the explanation is clear, not sure how to explain better :)

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Hi Guylain,

 

I downloaded and tested the new version. I found two problems with it:

 

1) when starting, I get this error on Windows XP 32bit (I click 'Continue' and it continue loading, and shooting/focusing/planet modules seem to work anyway..but the error definitely seems a problem with something about 64/32 bit compatibilities?)

 

Screen-Shot-2015-08-03-at-23.49.35.png

 

2) Now using any shutter other than bulb starts the countdown correctly, but still not properly: it doesn't detect the Exposure Delay Mode (that instead Bulb recognises correctly). So I have on camera an Exposure Delay of 2s, BYN starts the countdown when the mirrors flips and not when really the exposure starts (from 1s to 3s later). Not a big problem as it was before, but something I'm sure you want to address, because it works correctly when using Bulb  :)

 

For the rest it seems to work, sky is cloudy so I cannot test further but that seems it all for now. Thanks for the update, I hope these tests can be useful for you!

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The image on the LCD during live view is what you see in BYN so I don't understand the degradation in quality :(

 

Some high end models do have exposure simulation, make sure to enable it. Disconnect the camera from the computer, turn live view on, click the ok button to turn live view simulation, connect the camera back to the computer... Is live view better?

 

Hi,

 

I tried this as well but nothing changes, and yes I have Exposure simulation always on.

 

To make it even more clear, I made a test and screenshots so I can show you exactly what I mean when I say that BYN actually just zooms digitally in the full screen low resolution live view instead of actually cropping in and showing that smaller part, that means all measurements are not accurate because is just a digital zoom.

 

In the image below you see a screenshot of BYN liveview. Then on the left there's another image, just under the zoom box, that is just the white zoom box zone of the big live view magnified, like literally taken and zoomed in 200% or more...so basically low resolution zoom in.

 

On the bottom I added a picture I took with my iPhone of the same zone, same live view, as it appears 'cropped in' (not digitally zoomed in) from the camera, and even from the poor picture quality you can see that camera doesn't digitally zoom, it just crops that part of the liveview giving full details not just bigger pixels.

 

I think it's a fundamental problem for all the measurements, not sure if the same happens in BackyardEOS (don't have any Canon to test), but this is probably definitely something to look into...just making pixels bigger makes the zoom box and relative measures not accurate at all and not useable I think.

 

Let me know if this explanation/screenshot is clear and if you need any more tests :)

 

Screen-Shot-2015-08-04-at-00.13.53.png

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I believe that what you are seeing is the designed behavior.  The image fragment in the Zoom Box window is the portion of the full image that is inside the white rectangle.  It is digitally zoomed because the size of the zoom box image is larger than the size of the white rectangle.  I believe that this is just how windows zooms an image to fill the size of the display frame.

 

I am not sure what issue you have with this behavior.  I don't believe that the image portion in the Zoom Box is used for anything except to display the area that is used to calculate the star size, but the star size would not be based on the zoomed image size.

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If you press pause, make changes, then click resume.  Did live view change?

 

Hi Guylain,

 

I tried nothing changes. To make sure it's not a limit of the Nikon SDK I tried, during the day, same LiveView from BYN and from Nikon Camera Control. I think it shows clearly how, somehow, BYN uses a much lower quality stream of the LiveView, that obviously affects both automatic pixel measurements and eye evaluations (Bahtinov mask, aligning etc.).

 

Below the LiveView from Nikon Camera Control:

 

Screen-Shot-2015-08-04-at-09.09.52.png

 

 

 

 

And below is the exact same LiveView from BYN...it is clearly a lower resolution/bandwidth stream both in general and detailed view:

 

 

 

Screen-Shot-2015-08-04-at-08.41.45.png

 

 

Any clue? It's not a SDK/software/usb bandwidth limit because Camera Control can do it....hopefully is something useful for you and easy to address as well? :)

 

Measurements of focus and bahtinov are done on BYN on pixels, getting the full quality LiveView would make those much more precise and useful :)

 

By the way...gonna buy Premium license, so I'm just trying to help as a customer and developer myself!

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I think Rick is on the right track actually.

 

In BYN, the zoom box is a digital zoom of the full live view frame.

 

I suspect in Camera Control the zoom box is a sensor crop at close to 1:1 pixel resolution of the sensor, meaning 1 pixel on the zoom box image = pixel in the zoomed image.

 

BYN does not do sensor crop zooming yet, I couldn't get it to work the last time I tried... but I may get back to it sooner if this is the case.

 

Thanks for sticking in there and running/reporting those tests.

 

Regards,

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Hi Guylain,

 

 

not a problem, if you need some testing on a d750 (that is good to test as well d610 and d810) let me know, you can take my address from my user account.

About the live view, as you said BYN is doing a digital zoom and not a crop, that means that on stars (usually quite small) the calculations performed on live view (focus etc.) are way off.

 

I tried BYN Bahtinov Focusing with my bahtinov mask, and although the pattern was cropped and clearly visible on Nikon Control or camera display(cropped), it was instead barely visible on BYN zoom box because of the digital zoom and too pixelated image on such faint details, and so was impossible for BYN to correctly focus using the Bahtinov.

 

Considering you also have a planetary imaging function and drift using the LiveView, I think would be a major improvement for visual and calculations in BYN to get access to the full LiveView function. On professional Nikons the noise at high iso is almost absent so LiveView allows to make loads of fine adjustments if it's possible to use it in its full quality.

 

Hope you'll be able to sort it out :) Any help you might need, please let me know!

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I am not familiar with the Nikon SDKs so I don't know whether the LiveView image is available at a higher resolution that what BYN is displaying, 

 

However, I would be pretty confident in saying that BYN is calculating the focus metric value based on the array of pixels that were downloaded from the camera, so however the image is zoomed would have no effect on the calculated result.

 

If you zoom in enough on any image you will start to see pixelation. It is possible to mitigate that by processing (upsampling) the image.  This may be what the other camera control program is doing and while this would lead to a more pleasing image, it would affect the calculated star size when done on an astrophotography image. The difference between the displayed images could also be that the OSX is upsampling and Windows is not when displaying the image at a particular size.

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Hi Rick,

 

sorry but you're not right on this, I worked a bit on the Nikon SDK as well, my screenshots were showing what I mean.

 

There's no upsampling per se, just resampling as it happens always. Nikon Control in Windows shows the liveview I showed you in the same way as OSX :) If you carefully check my screenshots, and where I zoomed in (highlights given by the rough surface of telescope), there's no way upsampling of the general view produces that: those details (or look at the chromatic aberrations for example) were just not present in the zoomed out Live View.

 

Basically liveview works 'streaming' you a reduced/resampled view of what the sensor gets, making it fit in the pixel grid of the camera LCD. Would be impossible to show you a stream of the full sensor resolution. So for example let's say, for argument sake, that screen has a grid of 1000x1000 pixels. You're in liveview at maximum zoom out, liveview doesn't show you the full information, it leaves small details out and shows you a reduced version of what your sensor is getting, to fit in your 1000x1000 pixels view.

 

When you crop in, like Guylain said, basically you're telling the camera to use those 1000x1000 in another way: to ignore all the stuff out of your zoom box, and fit in that 1000x1000 pixels grid more small details of the zone you're cropping in (resampling is happening on the cropped part, is not digitally zooming in the same pixels as the general view). Those smaller details were NOT PRESENT in the previous zoomed out liveview, where just not there as they would not fit obviously those details in that grid.

 

If you crop in even more, until you go to 1:1 crop, the camera is showing to you in those 1000x1000 always more details of that zone, leaving out (literally not transmitting them) all the things outside of that crop, leaving more for details of that zone.

 

The same exact thing happens on computer obviously. So BYN or any other software, in LiveView general (no zoom/crop) is giving you the full scene, but in those 1000x1000 pixels there are no small details, they're just not there and so whatever calculation BYN is doing, is just not precise because BYN is NOT getting the details in the general view. Is not that you don't see them but are there, they're not there :) And as Guylain said correctly in the Zoom Box you just see bigger pixels, not more details.

 

And that's why when I used my Bahtinov mask BYN was unable to detect the spikes. They are barely visible in the zoomed out liveview because such small details are not there, and the digitally zoomed in box was the same (in Byn is just a digital zoom with bigger pixels). It was the same on the camera LCD: no spikes clearly visible in the general LiveView, but they became clearly visible when cropping in (details of that region of the CMOS sensor are showing instead of the general view).

 

This is also why BYN was unable to give me correct or precise readings using any of the other two focusing measures on pixels, it needs to get those pixels used for details on the crop.

 

I'm sure Guylain in the end will solve it if the Nikon SDK allows him to :) I remember there were some posts about this on the C# Wrapper for the SDK, I'll try to find them out.

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I misunderstood what you were saying in the previous post that I responded to.

 

Perhaps I am wrong, but I do think that what Guylain is displaying is all of the data that is available from the LiveView stream in the main window. Then he is extracting a rectangular area of pixels that roughly corresponds to the zoom box and he is simply displaying those pixels in the other panel in BYN, and letting the GDI rendering engine scale them to fit. So it is the same pixels just displayed in a larger area (no more details).  What you are suggesting is that it may be possible to get that same rectangular region-of-interest area, but at a higher resolution, via an SDK call. That would be cool. I don't think that this is available from the EOS SDK.

 

I don't regularly use a mask for focusing. I prefer the numeric metric, usually the HFD.  However, with my Canon, I have had no problem getting focus with a mask or with the HFD. I stopped using the mask when I discovered it was only confirming what the metric was telling me.I understand that the camera scales down the image to display on the LCD.  It is this scaled down image that BYE gets, and I assume BYN from a Nikon.  The data from a LiveView frame is not very bright, but still suitable for using a mask or metric to reilably focus.  I would assume that it is also possible with BYN, but it may be best for one of the BYN users to comment.

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Well, this thread is making having a second go at live view quality.

 

I have found a property "kNkMAIDCapability_LiveViewImageSize" that is only available on higher end model and it makes a difference.  I see other properties as well that can alter the quality of live view.

 

I will send you a quick link to download and test the changes using the property "kNkMAIDCapability_LiveViewImageSize" set to the highest quality for testing and input.

 

Regards,

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