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skycamper

Duel cameras time out!

Question

Ive  made some progress being able to get two cameras connected.  The goal is duel capturing same datat and info.   Im trying to double my integration times for astrophotography. During bench testing on my couch ,  D5300 cameras, No usb hubs, no lenses, caps on bodies,  both set on RAW same settings.     Per the BYN directions I put the camera 2 shortcut on my desk top and used that to open a 2nd BYN screen.  Was that ok?

Does Duel camera need to be checked in both master and slave BYN screens?   in 1502 instance I assume is slave if I click duel camera it takes me to the screen that shows the extra cameras. I thought 1502 IS the extra camera?  Im confused.   

Will the slave follow what the master is doing?  Do I need to input the ISO capture details in the slave 1502 camera?   If I want the slave to do everything the master is doing then why can I make the slaves capture plan different on the 1502 camera??

I tried and failed to get both cameras to fire at the same time.  There were some time outs as well.   Maybe these log files will show what I did wrong.   

Thanks

logfile-[20180323-15h02m14s530]-[8076]-2018-03-23.txt

logfile-[20180323-15h03m01s360]-[7600]-2018-03-23.txt

logfile-[20180323-15h14m23s562]-[10500]-2018-03-23.txt

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Did you read the manual?

Does Duel camera need to be checked in both master and slave BYN screens?  NO

Will the slave follow what the master is doing?  YES, that is the purpose.

Do I need to input the ISO capture details in the slave 1502 camera?  NO, YOU DO NOTHING WITH THE SLAVE CAMERA OTHER THAN HAVING IT ON AND CONNECTED.

If I want the slave to do everything the master is doing then why can I make the slaves capture plan different on the 1502 camera??  The slave capture plan is ignored.

 

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I read the manual on page 45 and 46 for duel cameras but maybe I missed those answers or it was not clear in my mind. I'm not even sure I copied the camera 2 (1502) and configure files to my desktop correctly.  

I'll try again tonight, sorry!!

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I think that your questions can all be answered by carefully reading the manual.

>> Per the BYN directions I put the camera 2 shortcut on my desk top and used that to open a 2nd BYN screen.  Was that ok?

Yes, you followed the directions.

>> Does Duel camera need to be checked in both master and slave BYN screens?   in 1502 instance I assume is slave if I click duel camera it takes me to the screen that shows the extra cameras. I thought 1502 IS the extra camera?  Im confused.   

No, Dual (not Duel) camera is only selected on the master (Camera 1)  instance. This is where you tell the master which slave instances you want it to communicate with.

>> Will the slave follow what the master is doing? 

Yes, the only way to enforce synchronization is for the master to tell the slave what exposure parameters to use and when to take a picture.

>>  If I want the slave to do everything the master is doing then why can I make the slaves capture plan different on the 1502 camera?

The camera2 instance of BYN can operate independently or as a slave. So it's capture settings can be independently set. However when Camera1 connects with Camera2, Camera2 begins acting as a slave and it only uses the capture settings from Camera1.

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Thanks for the detailed responses, if camera 2 ignores the settings I accidentally put in the capture plan of camera 2 because I was in dual mode then why would not both cameras fire at the same time?  

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It should.

After both Camera1 and Camera2 are running, do they both show up in the Windows Task Manager?

Have you connected both instances to their respective cameras?

Without selecting Dual Camera, does the Camera 1 instance take pictures? What about the Camera 2 instance?

Have you selected the Camera2 instance as a slave from the Camera1 instance, according to the User Guide instructions?

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1 hour ago, skycamper said:

Thanks for the detailed responses, if camera 2 ignores the settings I accidentally put in the capture plan of camera 2 because I was in dual mode then why would not both cameras fire at the same time?  

There is an intentional 3 second delay between both exposure to manage data on the usb port.  This is also explained in the manual :)

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Okay, I see the timeout in the log files.

Let's take a step back, you're doing to many things trying to make it work and from what you have posted earlier you do not yet understand the role of the slave and master instances. 

I think you have configured camera2 as a slave to camera1 and camera1 as a slave to camera2.  If this is the case you've created and round robin loop.

The slave is just that, a slave.  You connect one camera to that slave instance and forget about it after that.  Don't mess with it's capture plan.  Connect the camera and forget about it.  Just take note of the port number you have set in the settings window for that slave instance, I think you have it set to 1502.  DO NOT MESS WITH THE DUAL CAMERA BUTTON IN THE CAPTURE PLAN OF THAT SLAVE INSTANCE.; IT NEEDS TO BE DISABLED in the slave instance.

The master is just like your normal BackyardEOS.  This only difference is that takepicture commands taken with this master instance will be sent to the slave instance as well.  On the master instance, you program your capture plan and you enable DUAL camera.  In the dual camera window you make sure you set the port number equal to the port number you have set in the slave instance (1502).

Regards,

 

 

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Ok Im still having problems, Ive reread the manual and your instructions.  Both cameras imaging sessions get cancelled when I hit capture.  Here are the log files.   I did not touch any setting in the 1502 camera and dual camera is not active. In my master camera 1499, in the dual camera icon is active , and 1502 is checked as active.   The program either crashes by telling me its stopped responding or both sessions get cancelled and Im back to the capture screens. 

logfile-[20180323-21h37m21s609]-[10544]-2018-03-23.txt

logfile-[20180323-21h39m01s455]-[9064]-2018-03-23.txt

Edited by skycamper

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Also I have two log files that cant be deleted from this afternoon.   Even though binary rivers is not running, windows says that are still being used.    Windows defender has been disabled throughout this process of testing.

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6 hours ago, astroman133 said:

It should.

After both Camera1 and Camera2 are running, do they both show up in the Windows Task Manager? YES

Have you connected both instances to their respective cameras?YES

Without selecting Dual Camera, does the Camera 1 instance take pictures? What about the Camera 2 instance?YES

Have you selected the Camera2 instance as a slave from the Camera1 instance, according to the User Guide instructions? I'M NOT CLEAR ON THIS , I DOUBLE CLICK BYN LIKE NORMAL AND THEN MINIMIZE THAT SCREEN AND OPEN THE DESKTOP SAVED SHORTCUT TO CAMERA 2 THAT HAS THE 1502 DESIGNATION PORT AND THEN PRESS CONNECT. 

 

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If you have log files that cannot be deleted then perhaps you have an orphan version of BYN running but without a visible window. You should either reboot the PC or use the Windows Task Manager to kill it.

What I see from looking at the last logfiles posted is that the Camera that was connected to the Camera1 instance of BYN returned a Device busy error. BYN reacted to this by cancelling the capture that was started by the Camera2 instance. Here is the log fragment:

2018-03-23 21:41:08,612 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] DEBUG - TAKE PICTURE ::: Shutter(MANUAL) Cable(CameraUSB) Av(--) Duration(5.0) Iso(3200) Quality(RAW) Mirror(0) SaveTo(PC)
2018-03-23 21:41:09,159 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] DEBUG - Device Busy trying to start BULB sequence
2018-03-23 21:41:10,472 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] ERROR - [kNkMAIDResult_DeviceBusy] (kNkMAIDCommand_CapSet, 33089, kNkMAIDDataType_Boolean, 1)
2018-03-23 21:41:10,472 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] ERROR -    at BinaryRivers.Camera.Nikon.Wrapper.NikonTaskQueue.Invoke(Delegate d, Object[] args)
   at BinaryRivers.Camera.Nikon.Wrapper.NikonBase.Set(eNkMAIDCapability cap, Object value)
   at BinaryRivers.Camera.Nikon.Wrapper.NikonDevice.StartBulbCapture()
   at BinaryRivers.Camera.Nikon.CameraModel.<>c__DisplayClass26_0.<DoTakePictureBulb>b__0()
   at BinaryRivers.Common.ProviderInterfaces.Camera.CameraControllerBase.DoWithCameraLocked(Action action)
   at BinaryRivers.Camera.Nikon.CameraModel.DoTakePictureBulb(Boolean start, Single mirrorlockseconds)
   at BinaryRivers.Common.Model.CameraModelBase.TakePictureBulb(Single durationseconds, Single mirrorlockseconds, String progresstext)
   at BinaryRivers.Common.Model.CameraModelBase.<>c__DisplayClass77_0.<CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved>b__0(Object state)
2018-03-23 21:41:10,487 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] INFO  - Timespan 1.938
2018-03-23 21:41:10,487 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] INFO  - Imaging session cancelled
2018-03-23 21:41:10,503 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] INFO  - [kNkMAIDResult_DeviceBusy] (kNkMAIDCommand_CapSet, 33089, kNkMAIDDataType_Boolean, 1)
2018-03-23 21:41:10,503 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] ERROR - [kNkMAIDResult_DeviceBusy] (kNkMAIDCommand_CapSet, 33089, kNkMAIDDataType_Boolean, 1)
2018-03-23 21:41:10,503 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] ERROR -    at BinaryRivers.Camera.Nikon.Wrapper.NikonTaskQueue.Invoke(Delegate d, Object[] args)
   at BinaryRivers.Camera.Nikon.Wrapper.NikonBase.Set(eNkMAIDCapability cap, Object value)
   at BinaryRivers.Camera.Nikon.Wrapper.NikonDevice.StartBulbCapture()
   at BinaryRivers.Camera.Nikon.CameraModel.<>c__DisplayClass26_0.<DoTakePictureBulb>b__0()
   at BinaryRivers.Common.ProviderInterfaces.Camera.CameraControllerBase.DoWithCameraLocked(Action action)
   at BinaryRivers.Camera.Nikon.CameraModel.DoTakePictureBulb(Boolean start, Single mirrorlockseconds)
   at BinaryRivers.Common.Model.CameraModelBase.TakePictureBulb(Single durationseconds, Single mirrorlockseconds, String progresstext)
   at BinaryRivers.Common.Model.CameraModelBase.<>c__DisplayClass77_0.<CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved>b__0(Object state)
 

Guylain's suggestion to try to take a picture with the Camera2 instance by itself then try the same thing with the Camera1 instance is a good one. Please try this and report. If they don't work individually then surely they won't work when slaved together.

You do not need to wait until nighttime to try this. You can do it at the kitchen table with no lens attached to the cameras and the body caps in place.

 

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Ok so , yes. I first opened the camera 2 from the shortcut created from the instructions in BYN for dual camera which uses the port named 1502 and took one photo. It behaved normally. Download was quick and painless.   I press disconnect and close the program.   

Then.........I open BYN like I normally do and connect (connecting the same camera that I left on and hooked up)    Please tell me if you want me to use the other camera instead for this.  Anyway, it takes a photo and it downloads just fine.   One thing I did was that I noticed the dual camera icon was lit up from the time I started BYN.  I unchecked the icon and then uncheck the active 1502 instance.  Was this ok?   It took the photo and it downloaded fine.  

 

logfile-[20180324-22h09m10s698]-[6240]-2018-03-24.txt

logfile-[20180324-22h10m25s538]-[1336]-2018-03-24.txt

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Okay, so everything works individually, this is good.

But, please try camera1 witht the camera you had before... we are trying to assertain that both cameras do work by themselves and this is not what you used.  Try it and report back; then we'll go from there.

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The idea was to test the Camera1 instance of BYN with its camera and the Camera2 instance with its camera, using their own cables, to ensure that both cameras and both instances work as expected when running independently. None of the issues have been due to problems with BYN, so you need to pay attention to your procedure, the BYN instance settings, the cabling, and the camera settings (of both cameras). Your test did not do this since you only used one camera and one cable.

Once both instances has been verified, any problems when they are slaved, are more indicative of a problem with BYN. However, since this has been working for at least a couple of years, I would not expect the problems to be program bugs in BYN.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that each time that you start a dual camera session you should test each setup independently before slaving them together. This is because troubleshooting is simpler when operating the cameras independently. And if they don't operate independently, then there is zero chance that they will operate when slaved together.

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Ok so I both cameras and cables work independently and even vice versa. I kept one camera off at all times.  I open BYN regular and it works with both cameras, downloads the photo pretty fast.  But I only took one per Guylians instructions. I disconnect and turn that camera off. I then open the shortcut to the 1502 camera, accpt the firewalls stuff and that camera fires off and downloads fine.    

I then switch the routine and use the camera that I used for the 1502 instance to the regular BYN instance and it fires off and downloads fine.  The 1502 camera works fine on the regular BYN instance also perfectly.   I assume you dont want the log files since there was no problem but I could be wrong.    Also, just FYI, I still have windows defender off, I have no other virus software, no SD cards in, Nikon cables.

Next step?

Good night !

Abraham

 

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6 hours ago, skycamper said:

Ok so I both cameras and cables work independently and even vice versa. I kept one camera off at all times.  I open BYN regular and it works with both cameras, downloads the photo pretty fast.  But I only took one per Guylians instructions. I disconnect and turn that camera off. I then open the shortcut to the 1502 camera, accpt the firewalls stuff and that camera fires off and downloads fine.    

I then switch the routine and use the camera that I used for the 1502 instance to the regular BYN instance and it fires off and downloads fine.  The 1502 camera works fine on the regular BYN instance also perfectly.   I assume you dont want the log files since there was no problem but I could be wrong.    Also, just FYI, I still have windows defender off, I have no other virus software, no SD cards in, Nikon cables.

Next step?

Good night !

Abraham

 

Okay, we are getting somewhere.  This is good.

Now do the following..

On camera2 (your slave instance)

  1. Start camera2 (the one on 1502) and connect the camera, do nothing else.  DO NOT enable dual camera on this slave instance, you are not suppose to.  In fact the only thing you need so do with this instance is connect the camera... then forget about it.
  2. You can take a single picture to confirms is still works, it should.

On camera1 (your master instance)

  1. Start camera1 and connect your camera. 
  2. Go to Settings and make sure (1) 3rd party integration is disabled, or (2) if it is enabled make sure the port is not set to 1502... otherwise it may conflict with your camera2 which is set to listen on port 1502.  Close setting window.
  3. In image capture... DO NOT enable Dual Camera yet.
  4. Take a single picture and confirm it still works, it should.  Since you have not enabled dual camera on your mast instance yet the slave instance should not take a picture.
  5. Now, enable Dual Camera on the camera1 (NOT ON CAMERA2... remember what I said about camera2... connect your camera and forget about it).
  6. In the Dual Camera window make sure port number 1502 is chosen and your host is set to localhost or 127.0.0.1
  7. Close the Dual Camera window... the Dual Camera icon should remain lit.
  8. Take a single picture... both cameras should now take a picture.

Regards,

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Ok so I finally had time to deal with this but even following the above procedure the camera taking a test image times out if the other one is on and connected, its as if both programs are controlling the same camera, on the last try the test image did not time out and it did download which was unusual. Dual camera is not enabled or highlighted in either instance and master camera is not set to 1502 its set to 1499 and both boxes are checked in 3rd party integration.    I unchecked the two boxes and tried again after restarting the program but it does the same thing. Switched USB cords and same story. Again not using any SD cards and have tested camera individually.  Log files below after deleting all others.

 

logfile-[20180401-13h26m13s520]-[3928]-2018-04-01.txt

logfile-[20180401-13h27m59s761]-[2236]-2018-04-01.txt

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Just to be clear, I did not press dual camera at all, I did not make it that far due to the time out and the problem with both programs being on and connected with single test images triggering the same camera.  I did not want to move on to the step without getting this part figured out.

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I do not believe that it is possible for 2 instances of BYN (Camera1 and Camera2) to be connected to the same camera at the same time. The first instance that connects to the camera prevents the second instance from connecting.

You said that you followed the procedure that Guylain provided for how to set up Camera1 and Camera2. This procedure called for you to slave Camera2 to Camera1, but you said that you did not do that. Are you sure that you followed the other steps completely?

Are you sure that you changed the Port Number of the Camera2 3rd Party Integration settings to 1502, per the instructions in the manual for configuring the slave instance? You also need to disable 3rd party integration in Camera1 to prevent conflicts. After making these changes, both instances need to be re-started.

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I kid you not, I plug in both cameras and dedicated USBs, cameras are physically off at this point.  

Start the shortcut to camera 1502 slave, turn camera on, take test image, no problem. Leave camera on.

Start BYN normal, turn master camera on port 1499 is verified in 3rd party integration, connects fine,  take test image, the slave camera goes off again and times out or downloads.  

But other than following guylians last set of instructions , how do I slave one camera to another? Or am I doing that by following his directions?  

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For Canon models Rick is correct in that no 2 programs can connect to the same camera.

For Nikon it is a hit and miss I find.  If your cameras are the same model it may cause unexpected issues.

I never clued on this before... but are both your cameras the same model... both D5300?

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Then that's what I'll do, I'll check back with you when that happens and I might have my new laptop up and running by that time.

Thanks for responding on a Sunday plus a holiday no less.

Abraham

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On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 6:19 AM, admin said:
  • Now, enable Dual Camera on the camera1 (NOT ON CAMERA2... remember what I said about camera2... connect your camera and forget about it).
  • In the Dual Camera window make sure port number 1502 is chosen and your host is set to localhost or 127.0.0.1
  • Close the Dual Camera window... the Dual Camera icon should remain lit.

Following Guylain;s steps 5-6 (as quoted above) is what slaves camera2 to camera1.

I am not a Nikon owner so I don't know how to tell the difference between 2 cameras of the same model. It may be difficult and the source of your issue, all along. That would be a bummer!

 

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10 hours ago, astroman133 said:

Following Guylain;s steps 5-6 (as quoted above) is what slaves camera2 to camera1.

I am not a Nikon owner so I don't know how to tell the difference between 2 cameras of the same model. It may be difficult and the source of your issue, all along. That would be a bummer!

 

Nikon uses what they call Module to communicate with the camera (that's the SDK).  Each camera uses a different modules and it appears to me to be a static singleton instance per module.  If 2 cameras using the same module are connected to the same PC then the second one seems to overtake the first one and then they get confused.  This observation is based on my own experience over the years.  Canon has a better implementation regarding multiple cameras because they don't have that singleton concept.

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