Planetary setup

[Jerry_K]

I have recently read very interesting article on DSLR planetary imaging in Canadian Sky News, July/August 2014 issue and it raised few new questions for me. The author suggested to use 2" 3X Barlow connected to DSLR. How is this done? is there special adaptor that fits between visual back and T-ring or does it have threads? I want to try using planetary settings in BYE but I have to have a right gear. Rick also suggested using 2" Barlow so I guess that this is correct way to go.  

Attached is photo of authors setup.

Jerry

[Jerry_K]

Jerry,

 

What is your OTA?

 

I have C6. Small job but does the job, sort of.

Jerry

[Jerry_K]

Jerry,

 

If I remember correctly, you have a Celestron setup.  If so, then you need an adapter that screws onto the back of the OTA that will accept your Barlow.

 

The 8" Edge HD OTA has 2" diameter male SCT threads and the larger models have 3.25" diameter SCT threads.  Something like one of these adapters will work:

 

for 8" Edge HD

for 9.25", 11" or 14"

 

These links are to the online store at OPT.  I am sure that they are available from other vendors.  In addition, I am sure that other manufacturers make similar adapters.

 

I have both 2X and 4X Tele Vue Powermates.  I purchases, separately, T-ring adapters for both of them. I don't know if other Barlows are available with a T-ring adapter or not.

 

I have not used my EdgeHD for imaging since I bought the Powermates so I do not know whether I would need a barrel extension to reach focus or whether the SCT has enough backfocus to accommodate the Powermate.  However, I would put that visual back adapter onto the back of the Edge and put the Powermate with its T-ring adapter, Canon T adapter, and camera into it and try to achieve focus.

 

I hope this helps.

Thanks Rick,

I had a look at 1.25" 5X and 2.5X Powermates. If I understand correctly, the top part where EP is inserted is unscrewed to accept T-ring adapter, right? In that case I would have to use 1-1/4" EP holder with 2" barrel adapter. Two days ago I tested different setups to check for FOV. Unfortunately only target available was Sun, clouds roll in at night. I was using 1.25" 2.5" long camera adapter tube and screwed on 2" barrel for focuser on one end and T-ring on other. With 17mm EP inside I got FOV similar to my Orion solar system camera. I think that if I unscrew EP holder from Powermate that then I will be able to go this route. Am I correct?

I do appreciate your suggestions,

Jerry

[Jerry_K]

Jerry

 

I found the a "T" ring adapter that goes on to the eyepiece it replaces the rubber eye cup at Telescope Adapters the number is DTR1 or DTR2 depending on the size of your eyepiece. use a TEOS to couple to your camera. also you can use the TEXT extension set between the DTR1 and TEOS.

 

put your 2X extension or Barlow in front of your eyepiece and these adapters behind.

I use a 2X extension from Explorer scientific

 

I tried this setup without the extensions on my Newt. and worked fine. got a JUST OK shot of Saturn because the seeing sucked. I'm going to try to get out tonight (if the wind dies down) and try again. 

Jim, thanks for the suggestions but I don't think I want to go with this projection route. I am pretty sure that I have found way to build shortest optical train and besides Powermate I don't have to buy anything else. See my reply to Rick.

Thanks again, Jerry

[Jerry_K]

Now that I figured out the hardware to do Planetary I run some tests and since this is a new animal for me I have few questions:

When I change ISO from default 1600 to 100 ISO I don't see any difference at all on Live view, none at all. Am I missing something?

After recording at 5X I noticed that the size of image is quite small. It tells me that what BYE does is records cropped image, correct?

When I checked recorded JPG images in BackyardTEMP/Downloads folder they all look the same. I was shooting Sunspot 2090 and there was a lot of air turbulence. When I used Orion camera the spot was dancing all over the place as is expected with Sunspots but in BYE the spot seemed glued to same area. What is the magic and how does BYE make movies in Bulb mode? So many questions.

I have read the manual but there is no explanation to any of these questions.

I need to know!

Jerry

[astroman133]

Jerry,

 

BYE captures individual live view frames, downloaded to the PC as quickly as the hardware supports.  That is about 15 frames per second with average hardware.  This means that setting a shutter speed is meaningless for controlling the length of each frame's exposure. So Canon uses the exposure, and ISO, to control the brightness of the frames.

 

Try this in a semi-dark room with a lens on the camera.  Connect BYE to your camera and go to Frame and Focus. With LiveView active, set the ISO to 800, and the exposure to 2".  Now start shortening the exposure.  As you shorten the exposure time, eventually you should see the image start to darken.  Depending on how dark the room is you may have to shorten it quite a bit before you start to see a change.  Then if you vary the ISO you should also see the brightness change.  I typically leave the ISO at a fixed value and just control the brightness by changing the exposure.

 

In your test, did you use a Barlow?  If not, depending on your scope's focal length, the target will be very small, even with 5X zoom.  The 5X zoom is a crop of the area (about 20%) inside the zoom box, displayed at the same image size as a regular, unzoomed image.

 

The focal length of my refractor is 660mm.  So with a 4x Powermate it is about equivalent to an 11" SCT at f/10.  That is a normally a pretty short focal length with planetary work.  Jupiter and Saturn are pretty small even when using 5X zoom.

 

I don't have an answer for your question about the sunspots being stationary when using your camera.  You should see them moving around, due to atmospheric turbulence, in LiveView just like in the webcam.

 

I hope this helps.

[Jerry_K]

Jerry,

 

If I remember correctly, you have a Celestron setup.  If so, then you need an adapter that screws onto the back of the OTA that will accept your Barlow.

 

The 8" Edge HD OTA has 2" diameter male SCT threads and the larger models have 3.25" diameter SCT threads.  Something like one of these adapters will work:

 

for 8" Edge HD

for 9.25", 11" or 14"

 

These links are to the online store at OPT.  I am sure that they are available from other vendors.  In addition, I am sure that other manufacturers make similar adapters.

 

I have both 2X and 4X Tele Vue Powermates.  I purchases, separately, T-ring adapters for both of them. I don't know if other Barlows are available with a T-ring adapter or not.

 

I have not used my EdgeHD for imaging since I bought the Powermates so I do not know whether I would need a barrel extension to reach focus or whether the SCT has enough backfocus to accommodate the Powermate.  However, I would put that visual back adapter onto the back of the Edge and put the Powermate with its T-ring adapter, Canon T adapter, and camera into it and try to achieve focus.

 

I hope this helps.

This is supplementary reply, Rick.

The main problem with this setup using VB is that it eliminates my JMI Moto focuser, that I can't be without, and I do not want to put additional adapters ending with with 2" barrel in order to use the focuser. Do I make any sense? I will post photo of my setup later today. If the summer haze lifts I will give the Sunspots another go with 2X Barlow 9CHEEPO THAT CAME WITH Celestron EP set.

Jerry

[astroman133]

Jerry,

 

I may have to wait to see a picture, but if your motofocus installs in place of your built-in focus knob then putting the suggested setup (2" visual back adapter with Powermate and camera) should work just fine.  If you have an external focuser that is controlled by the motofocus, then hopefully it is 2" and the Powermate and camera will just connect to it.

 

A picture will definitely help.

[s3igell]

When I change ISO from default 1600 to 100 ISO I don't see any difference at all on Live view, none at all. Am I missing something?

Jerry

 

LiveView Exposure Simulation needs to be Enabled in your DSLR's Menu.

(Which Canon DSLR do you use??)

[Jerry_K]

Jerry,

 

I may have to wait to see a picture, but if your motofocus installs in place of your built-in focus knob then putting the suggested setup (2" visual back adapter with Powermate and camera) should work just fine.  If you have an external focuser that is controlled by the motofocus, then hopefully it is 2" and the Powermate and camera will just connect to it.

 

A picture will definitely help.

 

Rick, my focuser mounts on 2" CS thread of VB and other end is 2". Every piece of my optical train has to start with 2" barrel. I will setup now with my Eq-Az mount and see how the new setup with 2X Barlow works. It is quite hazy but I should get some Sunspots. Hey, you are an Ohio man so you know our summer skies, eh?

Here is pic of my Crayford focuser.

Jerry

[Jerry_K]

When I change ISO from default 1600 to 100 ISO I don't see any difference at all on Live view, none at all. Am I missing something?

Jerry

 

LiveView Exposure Simulation needs to be Enabled in your DSLR's Menu.

(Which Canon DSLR do you use??)

 

Thanks Shane, I will check if it is enabled, most likely not. Hey, I am newbie when it comes to BYE and Planetary mode. You always come up with great solutions.

Jerry

[s3igell]

Rick, my focuser mounts on 2" CS thread of VB and other end is 2". Every piece of my optical train has to start with 2" barrel. I will setup now with my Eq-Az mount and see how the new setup with 2X Barlow works. It is quite hazy but I should get some Sunspots. Hey, you are an Ohio man so you know our summer skies, eh?

Here is pic of my Crayford focuser.

Jerry

 

OK.  So, your external Crayford Focuser has a 2-inch EP Holder - which IS your Visual Back...

(No need to add any other VB pieces, just go straight to the Barlow / Powermate and T-Adapter.)

 

It's all good - VBs are only necessary for SCTs which don't already have an EP Holder on their Scope.

 

So, with that Crayford, you should be in good stead for mounting your Optics AND for getting a very good Fine Focus.

[astroman133]

I agree with s3igell. 

 

JMI has different types of automated focusers and I did not know which one you have.

 

If you are going to get a Powermate, I would suggest getting the T-thread adaptor for it since it will shorten your optical train.

[Jerry_K]

When I change ISO from default 1600 to 100 ISO I don't see any difference at all on Live view, none at all. Am I missing something?

Jerry

 

LiveView Exposure Simulation needs to be Enabled in your DSLR's Menu.

(Which Canon DSLR do you use??)

 

My Rebel T1i doesn't have this setting. Why isn't BYE handling the simulation? I thought that it was automatic. I hope that it doesn't mean that it is hit & miss when it comes to ISO value because my camera doesn't support LiveVIew Exposure Simulation.

Jerry

[astroman133]

Jerry,

 

If your camera does not have the Exposure Simulation setting, then all you have to do to activate it is to set the exposure to some value less than 2 seconds.  How much less less will depend on how bright the ambient light is.  Try the steps that I suggested in the previous email.  You don't even have to connect the camera to a computer.  Just activate LiveView, and adjust the exposure using the wheel on the camera.  Once you have shortened the exposure so that the image in the LCD screen is starting to darken, then you should be able to darken it further by lowering the ISO.

[Jerry_K]

Rick, my focuser mounts on 2" CS thread of VB and other end is 2". Every piece of my optical train has to start with 2" barrel. I will setup now with my Eq-Az mount and see how the new setup with 2X Barlow works. It is quite hazy but I should get some Sunspots. Hey, you are an Ohio man so you know our summer skies, eh?

Here is pic of my Crayford focuser.

 

Jerry

 

OK.  So, your external Crayford Focuser has a 2-inch EP Holder - which IS your Visual Back...

(No need to add any other VB pieces, just go straight to the Barlow / Powermate and T-Adapter.)

 

It's all good - VBs are only necessary for SCTs which don't already have an EP Holder on their Scope.

 

So, with that Crayford, you should be in good stead for mounting your Optics AND for getting a very good Fine Focus.

I have never thought of it that way but you are right, the 2" EP holder is now my VB.

One more thing guys: If I get 4X Powermate does it mean that my focal ratio will go from f/10 to f/40? Ouch!!! Also, what is the thread size on the Powermate body?

Jerry

[Jerry_K]

Jerry,

 

If your camera does not have the Exposure Simulation setting, then all you have to do to activate it is to set the exposure to some value less than 2 seconds.  How much less less will depend on how bright the ambient light is.  Try the steps that I suggested in the previous email.  You don't even have to connect the camera to a computer.  Just activate LiveView, and adjust the exposure using the wheel on the camera.  Once you have shortened the exposure so that the image in the LCD screen is starting to darken, then you should be able to darken it further by lowering the ISO.

 

Thanks Rick, I will try it today on the Sun even though it is a crappy target with image jumping all around. Here is my setup with 2X Barlow. This OT is as short as I can go:

 

 

 

 

[jimwc6491]

Jerry

 

Here is a link to a guy that makes all kinds of adapters for most not just Canon DSLR cameras, good stuff.

he also has a seconds section that will save you money if you are not concerned of a scratch here and there.

http://www.telescopeadapters.com/index.htm?all_canon.htm

 

Scope stuff also has some but not a wide assortment adapters.

http://www.scopestuff.com/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jerry_K]

Jerry

 

Here is a link to a guy that makes all kinds of adapters for most not just Canon DSLR cameras, good stuff.

he also has a seconds section that will save you money if you are not concerned of a scratch here and there.

http://www.telescopeadapters.com/index.htm?all_canon.htm

 

Scope stuff also has some but not a wide assortment adapters.

http://www.scopestuff.com/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks Jim,

I have bought a lot of stuff from both dealers. Last one was UltraWide prime focus adapter from Telescope Adapters. To be honest, I don't see any difference on image between UltraWide and 2" to T-ring adapter from Scopestuff.

Anyway, I just want to figure out best way to do EP projection and if it is even worth it. My Orion SSSIV camera works great but, and it is big "but", the focus is incredibly sensitive. Just 15 degrees of turn with main focuser and image of Saturn appears and disappears from laptop screen. It is imposable to focus without a motorised focuser. Lucky that I have one.

Jerry

[jimwc6491]

Jerry

 

I found the a "T" ring adapter that goes on to the eyepiece it replaces the rubber eye cup at Telescope Adapters the number is DTR1 or DTR2 depending on the size of your eyepiece. use a TEOS to couple to your camera. also you can use the TEXT extension set between the DTR1 and TEOS.

 

put your 2X extension or Barlow in front of your eyepiece and these adapters behind.

I use a 2X extension from Explorer scientific

 

I tried this setup without the extensions on my Newt. and worked fine. got a JUST OK shot of Saturn because the seeing sucked. I'm going to try to get out tonight (if the wind dies down) and try again. 

[astroman133]

Jerry,

 

What is your OTA?

 

 

[astroman133]

Jerry,

 

If I remember correctly, you have a Celestron setup.  If so, then you need an adapter that screws onto the back of the OTA that will accept your Barlow.

 

The 8" Edge HD OTA has 2" diameter male SCT threads and the larger models have 3.25" diameter SCT threads.  Something like one of these adapters will work:

 

for 8" Edge HD

for 9.25", 11" or 14"

 

These links are to the online store at OPT.  I am sure that they are available from other vendors.  In addition, I am sure that other manufacturers make similar adapters.

 

I have both 2X and 4X Tele Vue Powermates.  I purchases, separately, T-ring adapters for both of them. I don't know if other Barlows are available with a T-ring adapter or not.

 

I have not used my EdgeHD for imaging since I bought the Powermates so I do not know whether I would need a barrel extension to reach focus or whether the SCT has enough backfocus to accommodate the Powermate.  However, I would put that visual back adapter onto the back of the Edge and put the Powermate with its T-ring adapter, Canon T adapter, and camera into it and try to achieve focus.

 

I hope this helps.

[s3igell]

Jerry

 

I found the a "T" ring adapter that goes on to the eyepiece it replaces the rubber eye cup at Telescope Adapters the number is DTR1 or DTR2 depending on the size of your eyepiece. use a TEOS to couple to your camera. also you can use the TEXT extension set between the DTR1 and TEOS.

 

put your 2X extension or Barlow in front of your eyepiece and these adapters behind.

I use a 2X extension from Explorer scientific

 

I tried this setup without the extensions on my Newt. and worked fine. got a JUST OK shot of Saturn because the seeing sucked. I'm going to try to get out tonight (if the wind dies down) and try again. 

 

The configurations that you are describing are generally called "Eyepiece Projection" (EP) Imaging.  And while that setup is often the ONLY configuration which works for some Visual-oriented Newts and Dobs, it is NOT the Preferred Configuration for those with other designs of Telescopes - especially SCTs.

Owners of SCTs have No Problems with Back-Focus (unless some very unusual Optics / Camera configurations) because the Primary Mirror in an SCT has such a Large Range of Motion.  SCTs are also significantly Longer Focal Length than most any Newt or Dob, and as such would suffer from several of the other Optics Limitations encountered when using EP Imaging - Exaggerated Seeing Distortions, Rayleigh Limits / Diffraction Limits, and Reduced Light Throughput because of the narrow Field Stops and Multiple Layers of Glass through which the Light must pass.

For an SCT, one would simply want a "Visual Back" connector (eg: model SCT2 from TelescopeAdapters.com, or the Baader Click-stop models which Rick (astroman133) pointed out), into which the Barlow / PowerMate would be inserted.  And then the top of that Optics would be connected to the DSLR T-Ring with either the T-Threads (if present on the Barlow / PowerMate) or via a standard T-Adapter (such as the T2EOS - or any standard generic T-Adapter).