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Planetary Imaging

AdamButko

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AdamButko Red Giant

AdamButko

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I'm relatively new to Backyard EOS and astrophotography in general, so excuse me if this is silly. I've shot the moon numerous times and successfully captured Orion Nebula with 30 second exposures without trailing stars, so I'm becoming familiar with the equipment and terminology ... very slowly.

 

Now I have my sights set on shooting Jupiter. I'm fiddling around with Backyard EOS 1.0.3, trial edition, will likely purchase upon expiry if I can figure this out. I'm using a Nikon D300. Under the Planetary tab, I do not have a 5x zoom option (see attached image). I've also ran some video trials and all my images come out at 640x426 resolution, which is stated in the file name. Any idea how to access the 5x zoom feature, or increase the resolution?

 

Thanks, clear skies!
 

Adam

 

Double posted, my apologies, please remove one!

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tcab Red Giant

tcab

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Has the ability to record planetary videos in resolutions better than 640x480 been implemented in BYN yet?

 

I just tried with the trial 2.0.2 and whilst 5x video recording works, I still only manage to get low res 640x480 .AVI videos.

I have a Nikon D750.

 

P.S. Also the help displayed in planetary help BYN refers to BYE (the canon version) - it should refer to Nikon, I would have thought.  See attached screenshot.

 

post-16616-0-09312200-1491396051_thumb.png

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s3igell Nuclear Fusion

s3igell

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Has the ability to record planetary videos in resolutions better than 640x480 been implemented in BYN yet?

 

I just tried with the trial 2.0.2 and whilst 5x video recording works, I still only manage to get low res 640x480 .AVI videos.

I have a Nikon D750.

 

What Resolution are you Expecting for Planetary AVIs from your D750??

 

Please remember that the BEST RESOLUTION is essentially that which provides a 1:1 Ratio between Pixels on your Sensor and Pixels in the AVI.

Also that even with Very High Magnification from Long Focal Length with 3x or 5x Barlows, the Planets are SMALL Objects which only cover a few ArcSec of Sky:  Jupiter at Opposition - 50;  Saturn at Opposition - 20; Mars at Opposition - 30.

So, even under Perfect sub-ArcSec Skies (which almost None of us will experience), king Jupiter will cover less than 100 pixels (the central 1/5th of that 640/480).

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admin Cosmic Ray

admin

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Has the ability to record planetary videos in resolutions better than 640x480 been implemented in BYN yet?

 

I just tried with the trial 2.0.2 and whilst 5x video recording works, I still only manage to get low res 640x480 .AVI videos.

I have a Nikon D750.

 

P.S. Also the help displayed in planetary help BYN refers to BYE (the canon version) - it should refer to Nikon, I would have thought.  See attached screenshot.

 

 
This is a misconception by a lot of people unfortunately.  Let me explain.
 
Resolution is not represented by how large the live view image is, full sensor or not.  Resolution, for live view, is represented by the pixel ratio and you aim at getting a 1:1 pixel ratio... meaning 1 pixel on the sensor = 1 pixel on your final image... with no transformation in between.  On most Canon DSLR you get this 1:1 pixel ratio with the 5X live view option, it is essentially a center crop of the sensor at 1:1 pixel resolution.  
 
So the short story is use 5x all the time for planetary and never look back.  This is your 1:1 pixel resolution.  The only exception is if you want to image the moon and you want the full disk.
 
In non-5x, your live view frame the about the same size of a small jpg image, it is a full sensor image but not full sensor 1:1 resolution.  If you do not use the 5x option you end up with an approximate 25:1 pixel resolution on your image and you will lose a lot of quality.  This is a matrix of 5 x 5 sensor pixels (25 pixels in total) merged into 1 pixel in your image.  
 
Also, always remember that DSLR cameras are designed for daytime use so the built-in functionally is not optimized for what we use them for sadly.
 
For Nikons the 5x zoom is not as accurate and close to a 1:1 resolution as most Canon's DSLR are so planetary imaging with Nikon is possible but may not produce as clear of a final image as most Canon's will do.
 
Hope this helps,
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tcab Red Giant

tcab

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Thanks for the replies.  I am using 5x zoom feature.  Sounds like we are "capturing" live view rather than using the native

  • 1920 x 1080; 60p (progressive), 50p, 30p, 25p, 24p
  • 1280 x 720; 60p, 50p

features of the D750 ? - which seems to be a waste of what the camera can do - perhaps the Nikon SDK doesn't allow control over the video features of the camera.

 

When I take a STILL picture of the moon vs. a planetary VIDEO of the moon - the difference in resolution is immense.  

(See attached image with still photo in the background and video in the foreground)

 

I might be better of taking a series of JPEGs and combining them together into a video manually - or disconnect from BYN and simply use the native video facilities of the camera.  In summary, the 640x480 "live view capture" videos are not pleasing to me - ideally BYN would have an option of taking native HD video or combining a string of high res JPEGS into a video.  

 

P.S.  I understand there may be some astronomical misunderstandings to my thinking (I am an experience photographer but beginner astronomer), and I also understand there may be some technical limitations the developers of BYN may be facing.

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s3igell Nuclear Fusion

s3igell

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When I take a STILL picture of the moon vs. a planetary VIDEO of the moon - the difference in resolution is immense.  

(See attached image with still photo in the background and video in the foreground)

There is an Immense Difference in "Field of View" rather than "Resolution".  Both of them are arguably very similar Resolutions - 1:1 ratio Image Pixels to Sensor Pixels (and Sensor Pixel Resolution is a factor of Physical Pixel Size and Optics Focal Length).  The fact that the BYN Planetary Video is a Crop of the Central Portion of the Sensor while the Still is a Capture of the Full Sensor does give the latter a Significantly Larger FOV (Half-Moon vs Eighth-Moon).

 

If you were to Resize the Still so that you were showing it at "100% Zoom" in your Display Software, you'd see that the actual "Resolution" is Very Similar to that of the Planetary Image frame.

 

I am using 5x zoom feature.  Sounds like we are "capturing" live view rather than using the native

  • 1920 x 1080; 60p (progressive), 50p, 30p, 25p, 24p
  • 1280 x 720; 60p, 50p

You ARE capturing the Live View.  In fact that is what you WANT to Capture.

 

The "Native Formats" are actually only "Video Output Standard Formats" and NOT "Native Formats for your Sensor".  Your D750 has a Sensor of 6016 x 4016 Pixels.  How do you relate this Pixel Count to the Output Format of 1920x1090??  By merging 3.13 Horizontal Pixels to each Output Image Pixel?? Merging 3.72 Vertical Pixels to each Output Image Pixel??  And what of the Color Filter Array - which is a 2x2 Grid??

All Cameras which output in Standard Video Formats have to deal with these Challenges - all while prioritizing Full FOV over Pixel Accuracy.  This works Much Better for Daytime Video than for Planetary Imaging.

 

I might be better of taking a series of JPEGs and combining them together into a video manually - or disconnect from BYN and simply use the native video facilities of the camera.

Taking a Series of Full-Resolution JPEGs could very well produce Great Results - especially if shooting a Large FOV Object such as the Full Moon (not so much better for Small FOV Objects such as Jupiter or other Planets).  You will capture the FOV at 1:1 Resolution.  But...  You will capture far fewer Frames per Minute due to Actuating the Physical Mirror/Shutter and Offloading Data from the Sensor.  And that slower rate would likely mean that you capture fewer of the instances of "Lucky Seeing".  (Also, do ensure that you use "No Compression" / "100% Quality" for your JPEG Output Settings.)

You wouldn't need to combine them into a Video in order to process them in Planetary Video Stacking software such as AutoStakkert2 - just Drag&Drop your Image Files onto the main window.  Then process as if it were opening a Video File.

 

In summary, the 640x480 "live view capture" videos are not pleasing to me - ideally BYN would have an option of taking native HD video or combining a string of high res JPEGS into a video.  

 

I understand there may be some astronomical misunderstandings to my thinking (I am an experience photographer but beginner astronomer), and I also understand there may be some technical limitations the developers of BYN may be facing.

I would suggest that you actually do what you suggest above, and follow it all the way through to the Planetary Video Stacking.  That should show you the value of the details above, and give you a perspective on both what aspects of Daytime Photography and Daytime Videography DO or DON'T Translate to Planetary Imaging.

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peje Advanced Member

peje

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I'm out. Couldn't wait any longer seeing 2 oppositions pass by while idling. Ordered an ASI224MC.

Nice! In similar fashion Ive abandoned planetary imaging and moved to SG Pro, BYN/BYE have been demoted to lunar imaging.

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admin Cosmic Ray

admin

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Yeah, I got this to work today.  I works fine with my D7000.  

 

Chris will be doing testing on a D90, D5100, and D5300 later this week.

 

We are getting there.

 

Thank you for your patience.

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admin Cosmic Ray

admin

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BYN 1.0.5 is a quick patch release to include the NEW Nikon SDK files ONLY.  This will be a stable release with the only goal to address connection issues due to camera firmware upgrades.

 

Regards,

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astroman133 Cosmic Ray

astroman133

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Adam,

 

Your post appears twice.  Hopefully Guylain will delete the other post.

 

First, if you are using a Nikon camera, your software is BackyardNikon, not BackyardEOS.  BackyardEOS is for Canon cameras.  Also, the latest version of BYE is 3.1.5.  1.0.3 is the current version of BYN.

 

If you look through the previous posts in the BackyardNikon forum you will see that the current release of BYN does not support 5X Zoom.  Here is an example:

 

http://www.otelescope.com/index.php?/topic/1276-backyardnikon-11-pixel-live-view-d7100/#entry8686

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AdamButko Red Giant

AdamButko

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Thanks Rick.

 

Seems like a lost cause to attempt planetary imaging when resolution is limited to 640 x 426 on a full-scale image... guess I'll have to stick with taking individual frames. Any idea when an update including this feature will be available?

 

Adam

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admin Cosmic Ray

admin

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Thanks Rick.

 

Seems like a lost cause to attempt planetary imaging when resolution is limited to 640 x 426 on a full-scale image... guess I'll have to stick with taking individual frames. Any idea when an update including this feature will be available?

 

Adam

 

Chris has it on his plate to implement actually.  I'm hoping it will make the next release in 1.0.4.

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