Simultaneous Collections

[orbmanBYEOS]

I experienced weird thing capturing planetary videos with BYEOS (premium; v. 3.2.3) attached to my Canon 7DII DSLR. BYEOS was running on a Surface Pro 4 laptop computer.

For about a year before upgrading to the premium version, I had been capturing planetary videos in both JPG and AVI as recommended (manual or on-line tutorial?) so if the AVI failed the individual JPG frames were a backup. But I am using an old laptop with a 100GB hard drive and a 256GB mini-SD card. BYEOS was sending data to the hard drive at about 22 fps, but only at 10 fps to the mini-SD card, so using the mini-SD was not a good option. But then I was quickly running out of hard drive space and BYEOS would quit. Someone on the BYEOS support forum suggested that I only save the JPG frames, and I can load them into stacking software just as easily as the AVI files.

When collecting both AVI and JPG, say for 1200 frames, the progress wheel in the software program would start with 1 and end the capture at 1200. And then I could collect another loop. This time, when collecting only the JPG frames, the progress wheel would start and then quickly stop, and then the record button would light up again. My assumption was that something was not working, so I hit the record button again. Sometimes I needed to hit record a third time. The progress wheel was really weird. It would show all sorts of quickly changing numbers, such as 764 and then 525 and then 800 and then 600, etc. When I started processing the collected files, I found that BYEOS was collecting multiple videos at the same time, but each was different. For example, Jupiter was slowly drifting through the frame, and JPG 001 of one capture had Jupiter in a slightly different location than JPG 001 of the other video capture going on at the same time.

I did try an AVI & JPG capture once during this session, and this time the progress wheel showed the normal progress numbers for frame captures. I know that the premium version can simultaneously collect images from two different cameras at the same time. Is this what is happening? I thought that I needed to start two different BYEOS runs for two cameras? Or is something else going on?

[astroman133]

Let's clear up some misconceptions.

First, the author's preferred abbreviation for BackyardEOS is BYE, not BYEOS.

Second, there is no such thing as "the premium version". Version relates to the release number of the software, for example 3.2.3. While "premium" is your license type. The license determines which features are active in the program. This means that it is unnecessary to download BYE again in order to replace a Classic license with a Premium license. Entering a Premium license key into your existing copy of BYE will replace the Classic license key with the new Premium license key and will make all the features immediately accessible. This means that if you were doing Planetary imaging with a Classic license and upgraded to a Premium license that you are actually using the same software to perform Planetary imaging since it is completely supported regardless of your license key.

Third, when performing Planetary imaging, the camera downloads JPG images as fast as it can. The rate is controlled by several factors including the camera itself, the speed of your PC and storage devices, and the bandwidth available via the USB cable/hub. Even if you have the camera directly connected to the PC a USB hub is likely still involved. For many PC's there are multiple locations where there are groups of USB sockets near each other. Often, these groups of ports are connected to USB hubs that are internal to the PC. My laptop, for example has USB ports on the left and on the right sides of the case. These are managed by different internal hubs. If your system is similar, you might see an improvement in your performance when downloading JPG images during Planetary imaging if you connect the camera to a port on a different side of the laptop than your other devices.

Fourth, the User Guide does not recommend or discuss whether you should save planetary images as AV+JPG. You must have seen that somewhere else. Apparently, the User Guide was never updated when the AVI+JPG or AVI options were added to the software.

Fifth, saving Planetary captures to an AVI file occurs only after all the individual JPG images have been captured. This means that peak hard disk utilization occurs while the AVI is created since both the AVI and all the JPG images are existing at the same time. Once the AVI file is completely created, and if you have told BYE to save only the AVI file, the individual JPG files are deleted. If disk space is low, or you are likely to run out, you should save JPG files only. It is also possible that the AVI file is larger than the size of all the JPG files that it was made from.

Finally, I am using BYE 3.2.3 which is what you have said that you are using. When I click the Record button to begin a planetary capture, all the Capture Plan controls are disabled to prevent you from trying to change the settings or start a second capture plan while the first plan is active. However, when all the JPG images for the first plan have been downloaded, the controls are re-enabled. This allows you to start a second capture while the JPG's in the first capture are being converted to an AVI file. This process can take several seconds depending on the speed of your hardware, availability of RAM memory and availability if free disk space. If your PC is underpowered and with insufficient RAM memory, attempting to start a second capture plan while the first is still being converted to an AVI file could cause both operations to run slowly. This is caused by Windows swapping some parts of the running software out of memory to give other parts a chance to run. This could lead to you seeing strange information in the user interface.

Depending on how long it took between the start of two successive capture plans, images of Jupiter from the different plans could appear different. The differences can be due to a couple of factors such as Jupiter's high rate of planetary rotation or drift of the planet in the image due to poor tracking or polar misalignment.

Given what you have reported I strongly recommend that you either buy a faster and more powerful PC, and/or save Planetary captures only as JPG images. I recommend a laptop with a fast i7 or similar CPU, a minimum of 16GB of RAM and a 1TB solid state disk for internal storage. It should also have several USB ports on opposite sides of the case to allow you to load balance the internal hubs.

I hope this helps.

[orbmanBYEOS]

"However, when all the JPG images for the first plan have been downloaded, the controls are re-enabled."

Thank you for your comments. It seems like the best thing for me to do is wait until the Capture Plan controls are re-enabled before hitting the record button again, even though the record button is lit and operational before the capture plan controls have returned. I had assumed that the record button would not be operational during an on-going recording.

[astroman133]

You misunderstand what I said.

The Record button is one of the capture plan controls that is disabled while a capture is in progress. Once all the requested frames have been downloaded the Record button, along with the other Capture Plan controls, is once again enabled and you can start another capture plan. However that does not mean that BYE is done processing the downloaded images. It will be busy for several more seconds if you have specified that BYE should create an AVI file.

With an underpowered computer, and if you insist on converting the downloaded JPGs to an AVI, I would suggest waiting until the two-toned beep that signals that the AVI has been created, before starting to record another capture plan.

[orbmanBYEOS]

31 minutes ago, astroman133 said:

You misunderstand what I said.

The Record button is one of the capture plan controls that is disabled while a capture is in progress. Once all the requested frames have been downloaded the Record button, along with the other Capture Plan controls, is once again enabled and you can start another capture plan. However that does not mean that BYE is done processing the downloaded images. It will be busy for several more seconds if you have specified that BYE should create an AVI file.

With an underpowered computer, and if you insist on converting the downloaded JPGs to an AVI, I would suggest waiting until the two-toned beep that signals that the AVI has been created, before starting to record another capture plan.

Well, that wasn't happening with my system the other night. A few seconds after clicking on record, the record button came back on and was active, but not the capture plan. I was able to click on it again (and sometimes a third time). I ended up collecting simultaneous collections of video frames, and the progress wheel went nutty showing the multiple collections with the frame count flickering between the simultaneous collections. I was not collecting AVI files, only JPGs. All of the simultaneous JPGs ended up being saved in the download folders. For example, I was collecting 1200 frames at about 22 seconds per frame. Here are a couple of the folders collected:

jupiter_Tv120s_1000iso_1104x736_20241201-22h48m04s

jupiter_Tv120s_1000iso_1104x736_20241201-22h48m05s

They were started only one second apart, and there were 1200 JPGs in each folder. Jupiter was drifting slowly across the frames, and JPG 001 in one folder shows Jupiter in a slightly different position than in JPG 001 of the other folder.

I did one collection of 1200 frames saving both AVI and JPGs, and this time the record button stayed off while the progress wheel responded properly from 1 t0 1200 before the record button and the capture plan lit up again.

[admin]

Most of the commands in BYE/BYN are event-based... I suspect completing the 1st set took a bit more 'juice' and somehow affected the timing of the events just enough for one to be missed, and the UI was partially updated/enabled, these are usually a one-off and very difficult to reproduce.

[astroman133]

If the symptoms that you are reporting continue to occur it would be good to know, in detail,  the exact steps needed to re-create the issue.

[orbmanBYEOS]

1 hour ago, astroman133 said:

If the symptoms that you are reporting continue to occur it would be good to know, in detail,  the exact steps needed to re-create the issue.

It appears that the simultaneous collections only happen when I am collecting only JPG frames during planetary video captures, and the camera information box shows 1 or more in the queue. If I let the solid "1" and then blinking "1" finally disappear, then the progress wheel does operate normally. I tried doing 3 loops of 1200 JPGs each, and the simultaneous collection issue started happening with loop2.

It was very cold outside (~20 degees F), and I wonder if my laptop was running more slowly because of the cold? I also noticed that without the simultaneous collection, the frame collection rate was about 22 fps, but when there was simultaneous collections, it dropped to about 4 fps.

I tried the v.3.5 software and the same thing happened.

 

[admin]

Thanks for this info. Can you try it inside at room temperature?

Also, do you get the same behaviour on the different computer.

I wonder if antivirus software is at play here? Can you white-list the BackyardTEMP folder and your final download folder and see if this makes a difference?

 

[astroman133]

I tried to duplicate your "simultaneous collections" issue with my T5i camera using both BYE 3.2.3 and 3.5.0.RC7 X64. I am using Microsoft Windows Defender as my A/V and Firewall software on Windows 10 Pro. My CPU is a 6 core Intel i7 running at 3.2 GHz with 16 GB of RAM.

I tried both with the BYE Background Worker option checked and unchecked. I used 1200 frames and loop count of 2 or 3. I tried starting the Capture Plan a second time when the Queue was empty or had a value of 1 and waiting until the queue was empty. I was unable to see any anomalous behavior with the progress wheel or with the files collected. The frame rate was always around 18 fps.

Each time I clicked the Record button the button became disabled and the progress dial showed BYE calculating my frame rate and then it started counting up from 1 to 1200 as it collected frames. The Record button stayed grayed out until all 1200 frames from the final loop had been collected and the Queue showed 1. It did not seem to matter whether I re-started the capture plan it this point (with 1 item in the Queue) or waited until the queue was empty This also capture plan always ran to completion.

To summarize, I was unable to duplicate your issue with my computer. This, and the fact that nobody else has reported the same issue, leads me to believe that there is some issue with your hardware or operating system.

[orbmanBYEOS]

"To summarize, I was unable to duplicate your issue with my computer. This, and the fact that nobody else has reported the same issue, leads me to believe that there is some issue with your hardware or operating system. "

Interesting! I used the same equipment (camera, laptop, cable, etc.) two weeks earlier and it worked fine, but I was collecting still images in a loop with a slight delay for the shutter to stabilize. I used the same equipment last year collecting planetary videos (AVI&JPG), and it worked fine.

This time, everything worked fine when I collected AVI & JPEG planetary video (one time). The problem only seemed to be an issue with collecting JPGs only.

This is the only laptop that I have, and I suspect that it is possibly due to MS Win10 or anti-virus updates, or it was so cold that my laptop was sluggish and couldn't keep up with the simultaneous downloads and collections. At least it works if I wait for the queue to empty, so I can take a larger frame capture number, or just wait for the queue to clear. I did try one capture of 3,000 frames of Mars and it worked fine with nothing in the queue.

Thanks to everyone for trying to help with this.

Edited December 8, 2024 by orbmanBYEOS