D610 Liveview - Exposure Simulation

[shoffy]

While using the "Frame & Focus" or "Planetary" tab, I update my shutter speed and ISO.  I pause liveview and resume it expecting the exposure to change but it doesn't.

 

I'm sure I'm missing something or is it possible that Nikon's liveview doesn't have exposure simulation?

[admin]

I have a D810A on consignment from Nikon and it has live view simulation.  To activate it I have to disconnect the camera from the computer, activate live view, and press the OK button to activate live view simulation.  Once it is activated it stays activated so using BYN afterwards will have live view simulation activated and changing shutter speed and aperture (if a lens is connected) does change the live view image.

 

Try that on your camera and see if it makes a difference.

 

This option is only on some selected high end models.

[astroman133]

I am a Canon user, not Nikon, but this is how a Canon works...

 

 

It is not necessary to pause/resume LiveView in order to change the ISO and shutter speed, but you cannot change these settings on the camera, you must change them in BYN. At least with BYE, the settings are not changeable from the controls on the camera while LiveView is active.  They are if LiveView is paused or the Imaging screen is active.

 

Depending on the current values of ISO and shutter, small changes to either setting may not make a noticeable difference in the brightness of the display.

 

For example, if the ISO is set at 6400 and you change the exposure from 30 seconds to 10 seconds the display may not noticeably darken.  Likewise, if you change the shutter from 1/4000 second to 1 /500 second, you may not see the image brighten at all.

 

Most of the change occurs with shutter values between 1/10 second and 2 seconds.

 

If your setting are changed to the same default values every time you switch to Frame & Focus and this is not the behavior that you want, then you can uncheck the Maximum Sensitivity setting (in the LiveView group on the Settings dialog).

[admin]

Nikon does not behave the same way... but close.

 

You need to pause live view, make your changes, then resume live view.  Changes made while live view enabled are not applied until the mirror flips down and up again.

 

Make sure you are not in BULB mode.  Choose a shutter value less than one second and a low ISO and you should start to see a difference.

 

Keep us posted.

[shoffy]

Thank you astro and guy for your prompt responses.  I understand your point astro that small changes might not be noticed.  However, I think we can agree that a change from a 2 second shutter to 1/4000 should be noticed.  I reviewed your advice guy.  I am pausing/resuming live view and not in BULB mode and still having an issue.  It seems that any shutter or ISO changes I make are ignored.

 

I feel it's important to add that I experience the same issue when I DISCONNECT the camera and use the PHOTO live view.  Any changes to shutter or ISO are not reflected on the LCD screen.  If I switch to VIDEO live view, the exposure simulation behaves as I would expect.

 

I made a quick video of me using the planetary tab to rule out (or confirm) any suspicion of user error.  If you'd be kind enough to take a look, I'd appreciate any feedback on what I should do differently.

 

https://youtu.be/aYQkvKnqMRM

[admin]

If you do not see any difference in live view on the actual camera LCD then it means that that camera model either does not support exposure simulation -or- there is a camera setting that is preventing it.  In older Canon camera there was a setting, maybe it is the same for some Nikon camera.  I'm not sure.

 

Regards,

[shoffy]

I found this thread that discusses, what appears to be a D600 / D610 specific(ish), issue:

https://www.flickr.com/groups/d600club/discuss/72157631670298314/

 

Your suspicions were correct guy.  There is a setting in the D7000 called "Manual Movie Mode" which should be turned OFF.  However, this is not an option in the D600 or D610.  

 

Apparently, in Live View Photo mode, your LCD image is limited to a "properly exposed" image per the built-in meter.  Any changes to shutter or ISO will NOT be reflected even if you pause/resume Live View.  Live View Video mode behaves as you'd expect with exposure simulation.

 

Though I wouldn't expect this, if I were to make a feature request for BYN, it would be to allow the option of selecting which live view mode you'd like to use: photo or movie.

 

I still intend to use BYN for imaging.  You've developed great software.

 

 

Here is an excerpt from the discussion that was helpful.

 

 

 

In Live View Photo mode, the screen does not show the effects of the chosen exposure, except for exposure compensation to some extent. It is not what-you-see-is-what-you-get. 

Changing the aperture doesn't show a preview of the change of depth of field. Pressing Depth of Field Preview has no effect on LV Photo mode. Changing the shutter speed doesn't show a preview of the blur. Changing the ISO doesn't show a preview of the noise. Even in manual exposure mode, changing the aperture / ISO / shutter speed will not change the preview on the LV Photo mode (but there is an electronic light meter indicator). Exposure compensation adjustments can be seen on the Live View Photo mode within a range of +/- 3EV but in dim conditions (e.g. at night), I can only see changes within a range of -3EV to +1EV. If you apply exposure comp outside that range there is no change in the brightness of the screen.

Unlike in Live View Photo mode, the display in Live View Movie mode is of course what-you-see-is-what-you-get (aperture, shutter speed, ISO, fps). Exposure compensation changes are visible on the screen within +/- 3EV (but in dim ambient conditions, it is -3EV to +1EV).

[astroman133]

So, if you have a D610 you probably won't be able to use LiveView for focusing when using it for astrophotography. You will have to adjust focus by taking a short (5 seconds or so) exposure downloading it, review the FWHM of a target star, adjust the focuser, and repeat.  This is what you would need to do anyway with a CCD camera.

[shoffy]

I hope this isn't obnoxious but I *think* I'm on to something and would appreciate any feedback from folks much more experienced than myself.

 

After learning exposure simulation is not available in Live View Photo mode with the D600/D610 and that BYN uses this feed for its planetary and focus tabs, I started experimenting with Nikon's Control Pro 2 software.  It has the ability to view a feed from the Live View Movie mode.  It also includes a 100% and 200% zoom option.  I captured a video of the Live View Movie feed with exposure simulation using Ice Cream Screen Recorder.  The result was an MKV file that I converted to a series of PNGs using OGG Video Converter which I stacked with Registax.  It's (obviously) not as convenient as BYN but I think it could be a viable solution.  I'm a bit concerned about losing resolution from transcoding but I'll need to do more tests.

 

I mention this for two reasons:

 

1. In case anyone with a D600/D610 encounters the same issue

2. To ask if anyone can help me determine if the 100% and 200% zoom helps the 1:1 pixel ratio issue

 

You can find my sample of the Live View Movie feed at 100% and a version stacked version here if it's helpful.

https://www.facebook.com/brianshoffastro

 

If anyone is interested in going down this rabbit hole with me, great.  If not, I'll shut up and keep experimenting on my own.  

 

Again, thank you astroman and guyroch for your help.

[shoffy]

Quick follow-up, yes astro, I hear your note about frame and focus.  Thank you.  

 

I'm presently trying to solve my "planetary tab issue" (which isn't an issue with BYN but a peculiarity with Nikon).  I think what I describe above will do the trick.

[shoffy]

Thank you for the followup. I tried this with my d600 without any luck. The only thing that happened when I pressed the 'ok' button is the red box centered itself. There wasn't any indication that exposure simulation was enabled. This appears to be something exclusive to movie, not photo, liveview mode.

 

I've searched for alternatives and this d600 (and another model, i think d5100) specific issue doesn't appear to have a solution unless you can get a liveview feed in movie mode.

 

I believe I have one option. Use Nikon Cam Control to access liveview in movie mode. Zoom to 100%. Use screen capture software to record the feed. Not elegant but it works.

 

Of all the Nikon models... I buy the one that doesn't act like the others. *sigh*

[admin]

I have just looked at the D610 SDK documentation and it does not have live view simulation, Nikon calls it "LiveViewExposurePreview" in their SDK documentation.

[shoffy]

I really appreciate your continued effort on this Guy.  

 

I hear what you're saying.  Exposure simulation is not available with the D600 or D610 LiveView.  My research has found that this is a model specific oddity.  For some reason, Nikon decided to make the LiveView Photo Mode behave differently with the D600/D610 (and the D5100 I think).  They are the only models that exhibit this behavior.  

 

I hate to belabor the point but I am confident exposure simulation is only unavailable in Photo Mode.  In Photo mode, the LiveView will only display a "properly exposed" image per the in camera meter.  This behavior can be seen when you change the mode manually on the camera via the ring surrounding the LiveView activation button.  It can also be seen using Nikon Cam Control under the "movie" tab.  I could send a screencast of my experience to illustrate my point if it's helpful.  But in a nutshell, when in Photo Mode... no exposure simulation, in Movie Mode... it exists.  In both modes, you can't change the aperture without first turning off LiveView.

 

I'm sure you are familiar with Nikon Cam Control but in the off chance you aren't the program has a couple tabs.  Two for exposure that use LiveView in Photo Mode and another called "movie" which uses Movie Mode.  When I use the "movie" tab exposure simulation activates.  I'm limited to a 1/30 or faster shutter but that's okay.

 

After discovering this, I had hoped it possible to work some developer magic and use the Nikon SDK to say "capture LiveView but in Movie mode, not Photo mode."  However, assuming you're using the Nikon SDK C# wrapper for BYN, I did some research and it appears that this is NOT possible.  This lack of support is further confirmed with my experimentation with other programs like ControlMyNikon and DigiCamControl.  I don't know what they use to interface with the camera but their LiveView features produce the same results as BYN.  The only program that seems to allow a LiveView feed from Movie Mode is Nikon Cam Control.

 

I hope this is helpful.  I am very happy with BYN.  I don't believe this is BYN's issue to resolve and I appreciate the energy you've invested thus far.