Canon 90D - 5x not working, 10x won't appear despite settings...

[Crimsus]

Ok, this issue is driving me up the wall. I hope someone can help me out!

I have my Canon 90D hooked up and I'm using BYE 3.2.2. I followed the instructions for setting it up to do Planetary Imaging. Everything seems ok, but the 5x option doesn't seem to work. I click the button for 5x, the program appears to think/pause for a moment, but then the button returns to its normal state like it isn't selected. I did some test captures of my living room and compared them to what I see on the screen. The captured images are identical to what is seen in Live View. The only difference is the JPG file size and dimensions.

 

Am I suppose to expect images that represent only what the zoom box was over? Right now, what I see on the screen during Live View is exactly what the JPGs look like. The 5x button seems to do nothing. I've tried the typical uninstall/reinstall troubleshooting, but the problem persists. I checked the advanced settings and selected the 10x option to be displayed. That doesn't work either.

 

[astroman133]

Yes, the 5X view is supposed to be roughly what is inside the zoom box.

When you say that you "press the 5X button" do you mean the BYE 5X button or the zoom in button on the camera?

[Crimsus]

The BYE 5x button of course. 🤨 Why would you think I pressed the zoom in button on the camera? I followed the instructions in the BYE manual. I included a screenshot from the manual showing the 5x button I was pressing/clicking/cursing. No matter what, I would click it, and it would do nothing apparent. The captured images matched the Live View. The 10x option would never appear after I selected it in the Advanced Settings. I did the typical uninstall/reinstall cycle of troubleshooting and the problem persists. No matter what I do, whatever I capture is what I see in the Live View. If the 5x button is supposed to turn to a lighter shade of grey to show it is active, that doesn't happen. I click it, the screen seems to freeze for a split second like it is thinking and then that's it, nothing else happens and the results of the captured images don't show that the 5x is working.

[astroman133]

Thanks for clarifying what you are trying to do. What you are seeing is not what I see with my older model T5i. This is likely something that the developers of BYE can help you solve, or fix, if it is a bug.

[admin]

I got the log files.  In the future, please only send the one log file; otherwise I have to go hunt for the correct one.

The 10x will only show once 5x is activated, and in your case it won't show the 10x because 5x fail before it can.

Looks like the camera throws an error when trying to set the liveview zoom to 5x. I'm not sure why that is.

When you set 5x using the camera body buttons, does it show 5x in BYE?  If yes, send me that log file.

 

2022-03-12 12:07:44,620 [Main] DEBUG - IconPlus_MouseClick(btnZoom5X = '')
2022-03-12 12:07:45,027 [Main] INFO  - Running (throw): EDSDK.EdsSetPropertyData(cameraRef, LiveviewZoom(1287), 0, size(4), 1)
2022-03-12 12:07:45,042 [Main] DEBUG - BUSY try #1
...
2022-03-12 12:07:52,308 [Main] DEBUG - BUSY try #21
2022-03-12 12:07:52,933 [Main] DEBUG - ERROR EDS_ERR_DEVICE_BUSY : EDSDK.EdsSetPropertyData(cameraRef, LiveviewZoom(1287), 0, size(4), 1) 
2022-03-12 12:07:52,933 [Main] DEBUG -    at BinaryRivers.Common.ProviderInterfaces.Camera.CameraControllerBase.RunAndThrow(Func`1 function, String info)
   at BinaryRivers.Camera.Canon.PropertyBaseUint.UploadPropertyValueToCamera(UInt32 propertyid, Int32 param, UInt32 value)
   at BinaryRivers.Camera.Canon.PropertyEvfZoom.set_Value(String value)
   at BinaryRivers.Common.Model.CameraModelBase.<>c__DisplayClass107_0.<PropertySet>b__0(IProperty x)
   at System.Collections.Generic.List`1.ForEach(Action`1 action)
   at BinaryRivers.Common.Model.CameraModelBase.PropertySet(CameraPropertyEnum property, String value, Boolean force)
   at BinaryRivers.Common.Model.CameraModelCanonBase.set_PropertyZoomEvf(String value)

[Crimsus]

Ok, I figured out the issue. The manual needs some serious attention! 😡

The manual doesn't state in what order to connect or prepare things in order for the 5x zoom feature in the program to work. I was hooking up the camera, hitting connect in BYE, hitting the 5x zoom on the camera, then going to Planetary and hitting the 5x option. The manual only mentions using the In-Camera 5x option, but it doesn't state to set the camera to LiveView mode first, hitting the 5x button on the camera, AND THEN hitting connect in BYE. If I do things in that order, the 5x zoom and 10x zoom work (sort of). So I figured it out, but I think the manual should be updated with some better instructions. I assumed there was no particular order for things and I was hitting the 5x on the camera after BYE connected to it.

The one issue I discovered is that if I unclick the 5x after it is working and click 5x again, it won't work unless I disconnect the camera in BYE, go into LiveView on the camera, hit the 5x button on the camera again, and then reconnect in BYE.

I'm glad I figured it out, but I'm a bit ticked off because the manual's instructions need some serious work. The order the manual displays the images and steps, it is assumed that you can just hit the 5x button on the camera body AFTER it is connected to BYE.

Please update the manual!

[s3igell]

Crimsus,

Please understand that BYE supports over 50 models of Canon DSLR and MILC Cameras spanning at least 7 generations of Camera CPUs and countless internal versions of Canon Control Software and Menu Systems.  There is very little consistency in how (or even if) Canon implements various Camera Functions, and only about the same consistency in whether/how these Functions are exposed through the Canon SDK (which is not "Officially Documented" by the way).  Quite often, the Developer has had to Rent / Borrow / Buy each specific model in order to have a hands-on session testing to figure out which features are exposed and what triggers are required to utilize them.

Through all these hurdles, the Developer of BYE/BYN has managed to provide Code that presents mostly the same functionality across all these models.

[astroman133]

Quote

The manual doesn't state in what order to connect or prepare things in order for the 5x zoom feature in the program to work. I was hooking up the camera, hitting connect in BYE, hitting the 5x zoom on the camera, then going to Planetary and hitting the 5x option. The manual only mentions using the In-Camera 5x option, but it doesn't state to set the camera to LiveView mode first, hitting the 5x button on the camera, AND THEN hitting connect in BYE.

When I asked whether you were selecting 5X from BYE or from the camera, you said "from BYE of course". Now it turns out you are setting it from the camera AND from BYE.

With my T5i, and every version of BYE that I have ever used, I plug the camera into the PC, put the rotary dial to Manual mode, turn the camera on and do not physically touch the camera again. I do not "put the camera into LiveView mode or into 5X zoom" on the camera. BYE does that for me. BYE automatically starts LiveView mode when I go into F&F mode or Planetary mode and I can zoom via the BYE 5X button back to 1x mode whenever I want.

That said, if I try to duplicate the process that you describe in your post (pressing 5X on the camera and in BYE) BYE does not behave as you might expect. As s3igell indicated, BYE is at the mercy of the capabilities of Canon's EOS SDK. In a perfect world, if you press the zoom button on the camera BYE should automatically recognize that and go into 5X mode. That does not occur for me. But as I said, I do not ever touch the camera once BYE is in control, so I had never tried that before.

I suspected that BYE was not reacting to your pressing the Zoom+ button on the camera. That is why I asked the question that I did.

[Crimsus]

If BYE was an open-source, freeware application, I would agree that keeping up with Canon (or any other maker) changes would be very difficult. That said, BYE is something I paid for, so my expectations for development are higher.

 

It would probably be better to see the devs replying instead of users defending them (you made good points, but it is better for the devs to address these issues). For those of us with a programming background, it would be better to structure the different supported cameras in such a way that BYE uses a small database for camera models to determine how best to communicate with each device. The current guess work, with my recent experience as an example, is frustrating. All it would take is some beta-testing, a couple release candidates, and a better manual.

[s3igell]

Crimsus,

You have had responses by the Dev - BYE/BYN is a 1-2 person operation with a couple of dedicated and rather knowledgeable Users who help with User Support.  And to the best of my knowledge, each of us has a long programming / product development / product Q/A background.  And, if you reviewed the body of Forum Posts, you would know that these products do go through the classic sequence of dev / release cycles.  And if at any time you wish to volunteer your services toward the User Manual, I'd bet that the Owner/Dev would consider your offer.

However, BYE/BYN is not Open-Source - more frustratingly neither is the Canon SDK on which BYE depends.  Instead, it is a rather opaque API which is expressly "Not Supported" nor guaranteed to service all Models of Canon DSLR / MILC nor even fully support a complete set of Functionality across Models.  If you have significant pull with Canon, everyone would be appreciative if you could address those issues.

[Crimsus]

While I can appreciate one defending a product, as you are not a dev, you are only diverting attention and creating some background noise instead of encouraging these issues to be fixed. In the time it took to write this email, I was able to download the EOS EDSDK. It includes very THOROUGH documentation of the API. The fact that it is not open source is irrelevant. It's available, I've looked at it, and everything you just stated is fallacious and inaccurate at best.

 

When you make the comment "to the best of my knowledge" it means you are speculating and not making statements based on fact. Me being able to acquire the SDK files and API documentation in less than 5 minutes demonstrates you are speaking on behalf of the devs without much firsthand info of the SDK and the process to acquire it (which takes 2 registrations and 2 emails, done in 5 minutes). Yes, a dev responded, and that is the most appropriate person to address this.

 

As for the comment that the opaque API not expressly documented nor guaranteed to service all models of Canon DSLR, that's complete rubbish. In the time it took for me to register and browse the available files for download, I was able to identify most Canon DSLRs that have been released over the past 10 years, their SDKs, and THOROUGH API documentation. Whatever imaginary pull you think is necessary just shows that you really don't know what you are talking about regarding the coding, SDKs, and documentation.

 

As for volunteering my services: I paid for this product. If you bought a car and noticed that the window locks don't secure as quickly as you desire, would you go work at an automotive engineering department for free? Simply ridiculous.

 

There's really nothing else to say. I got the SDK and its documentation in less than 5 minutes. From everything I've already looked at, most of your arguments are speculative and guesswork. And I can tell you from experience from the brief look at the Canon API I've taken, it's leaps and bounds better than most other major manufacturers.

 

This conversation is probably best left to the devs--the experts.

[admin]

At this point, I would need a 90D to do some testing, thing like this are usually associated with timing or a pre-condition setting that needs to be set before.

And no, the documentation is not thorough, it is very generic at best and offers no intricacies all models have from one another to others, and this is the most difficult thing to do blindly. You can't compare a $50 software with a $50000 car, sorry. With $50000, I would be able to purchase all cameras and work out this little 5x bug in no time.

In the past, I have had a few users sending me their camera for issues like this where a camera model seems to behave different when the same command sequence is sent to the camera, and each time I was able to solve the issue within a few hours with the said camera model on hand for testing. This said, if you are willing to send me your 90D for a few days, I'd probably be able to resolve the issue. 

Regards,

[astroman133]

The EOS SDK is documented, but it is not supported. It is provided to registered developers on an as-is basis with no warranty as to suitability or fitness for any purpose. That means that there is no channel for developers who use the EOS SDK to ask for clarifications, report bugs, or request enhancements. All contacts with Canon technical support about the SDK are met with a "that is not supported" message.

Oh, and BTW, while I have no relationship with O'Telescope, other than as a customer of BYE, I am an engineer and software developer with over 45 years of professional experience in a wide variety of areas, including using the EOS SDK. I have volunteered my time to this community-contributed forum and have helped countless users over the past 10 years to become productive with both BYE and BYN. During that same time I have helped to advise users and developers of the ASCOM Platform, on the ASCOM Talk and ASCOM Developer forums, to create both device drivers and client applications. I also wrote and contributed the ASCOM Device Hub to ASCOM 6.5.

That said I have never seen the BYE or BYN source code since it is the intellectual property of O'Telescope.