Frame and Focus problem on startup

[nlskies]

I'm using 3.1.2 with a Canon 6D and Windows 8.1. More often than not, when I first open BYEOS and go to Frame and Focus, there is nothing visible. However, if I go to Imaging and take one sub, then go back to Frame and Focus, signal is getting through. Is anyone else experiencing this?

The first few times it happened, I just thought it was dark (ie. not enough SNR for any stars to be visible). Ended up wasting time trying to do an alignment (ie. guidescope and laser both indicate bright star should be visible in Frame and Focus - but nadda! try adjusting guide scope etc. etc.).

 

I don't recall this happening with older versions of BYEOS and my T1i.

Now I just make it part of initial setup routing to capture a short sub before going to Frame and Focus.


Dave

 

PS - This is first post for me. BYEOS is an essential part of my imaging workflow - a great application!

[nlskies]

OK - so the Frame and Focus uses the same camera settings that were last used for an Image? I guess I should have been paying closer attention to the camera information center    Actually, I was assuming the frame and focus would use maximum sensitivity by default (ie. assuming deep sky work). However, I guess that would not work for planetary. Perhaps I need to RTFM    (ie. Live View settings!). The 1/4000 was from me taking Bias subs.

 

Thanks to Guylain and everyone for your help.

 

Clear Skies,

Dave

[astroman133]

Dave,

 

When you go to F&F right after startup do you hear the mirror flip up?  This is necessary for LiveView to function. 

 

Does the log area in the upper left show any errors? 

 

Does the icon on the LiveView button on the very lower right show as an arrow or a pair of vertical bars? Clicking on this button should also cause the mirror to flip up and down and LiveView to start and pause.

 

Does it start working as expected if you take a Snap image on the F&F screen?

[admin]

This is weird, I've never seen this reported with any camera models in the past.

 

Send me the log files, maybe there is an error that could help finding the root cause.

 

The log files are in "My Pictures\BackyardTEMP\logs"

 

Regards,

[dts350z]

Perhaps he needs to check "Maximum Sensitivity" in Live view preferences?

 

That way he will always get the same exposure simulation setting when going to Fame and Focus and Planetary.

[admin]

Not, it's not the exposure simulation.

 

But could it be that the camera is not in M or B dial mode at first but rather a mode where live view is not possible, like Automatic mode.

 

That would explain it because taking a picture in imaging mode will have BYE set the dial properly to B or M on higher models like the 6D , where I change change the dial automatically.

[nlskies]

I just double checked - the dial is set to M. This camera is dedicated to astro imaging, so don't normally move the dial. Anything else I can check? (I'm still expecting this to be an 'operator error'  ).

 

Log files attached - from March 8 to 10th (not very often we get three nights in a row for imaging around here  ).

 

Dave

 

 

 

[nlskies]

Oops - ran out of upload space - here is log file for March 10.

 

logfiles_March_10_2015.zip

 

D

[admin]

Hi Dave,

 

I'm missing the top part of the log files because they get split at 12:00.  I need a full log file since the issue appears to be at the beginning of a session.

 

Can you start BYE and recreate, this way I'll have a fresh complete log file with only the needed logging and error.

 

Regards,

[nlskies]

Will have to wait until this evening - currently at work and can't start BYEOS remotely (battery dead on camera   ).

 

Dave

[nlskies]

OK - finally got back to it. Played with it a little more and discovered that on startup, the frame and focus is not actually totally dark - if I shine a flashlight down the front of the ota, I can see it in the frame and focus window. However, still does not have full sensitivity until I take an image and then return to the frame and focus window.

 

I have attached new log files that hopefully are complete. I also took some screen captures at each step (startup, frame and focus - dark, shine flashlight, image, frame and focus - normal) however it is too big to attach. Let me know if they would be useful and I'll find a way to get them to you.

 

 

 

Dave

logfile-20150315-16h05m17s894-backgroundworker-5028-2015-03-15.txt

logfile-20150315-16h05m11s159-7708-2015-03-15.txt

[s3igell]

Do you have BYE set for "Max Sensitivity" ??

 

Else, what ISO and Shutter settings do you usually start your 6D / BYE combo with ??

The 6D has a unique Sensor / Processor / Firmware combo - perhaps it has "new logic" regarding how it approaches In-Camera LiveView settings...

[admin]

This looks to me like exposure simulation is at work here.

 

When you go into F&F the first time, what is the TV, ISO, Dial value set to in the camera information centre before going in F&F and once in F&F?

 

Regards,

[nlskies]

When first start up (and in imaging mode) values are Tv 1-4000, iso400, Dial M. When switch to Frame and Focus, values are the same. Screen captures attached.

 

I'm still feel'in like this is going to end up being something dumb on my part! 

 

 

Dave

[astroman133]

Dave,

 

I think that what you are seeing is the normal, as designed, behavior.

 

When you first connect BYE to the camera, BYE reads the current exposure parameters from the camera.  These are used as the default settings for both Imaging and F&F.

 

When using LiveView for framing and focusing of dark sky data, you typically want to maximize the sensitivity of the LiveView frames.  You can adjust the shutter and ISO on the camera or through BYE.  However, for LiveView F&F you can check the Maximize Sensitivity checkbox on the Settings screen.  This will change the exposure to 2 seconds and bump the ISO up to the max value.  This brightens the LiveView images as much as it can, However, you will need to change to more reasonable values when you create a capture plan.

 

Also, even with the LiveView settings set for maximum sensitivity, you will only see the very brightest stars in the frames.  Even these very bright stars will appear small and dim and you have to look very carefully to see them.  They are easy to miss.  So, when using LiveView for F&F you need to make sure that you are looking at only the very brightest stars AND that the images are reasonably close to being focused.  As the camera gets further from critical focus any stars in the image become larger and dimmer.  They can become so large that they take up the entire field-of-view and so dim that they are nearly impossible to differentiate from the background. So, if you don't know how close to being in focus you are, you may need to look through the camera's view finder while getting a rough focus.  Depending on the pointing direction and type of scope that can be tough, but I know of no better way to get close to focus.

 

I hope this helps.

[admin]

Rick nailed it.

 

The issue is that your Tv value is set to 1-4000th of a second.  This is dim, very dim.

 

In F&F, just change the shutter value to BULB or a TV value > 2 seconds and bump the iso to 1600 or more you'll be fine.

 

Alternatively you can go to settings and set the maximum sensitivity value and BYE will automatically do it for you each time you go into F&F.

 

Hope this helps,

[dts350z]

This could have been solved at post #4 in this thread 

[admin]

This could have been solved at post #4 in this thread 

 

Yes, you were right all along... I was too quick ruling maximum sensitivity out as the issue and went off track

 

Regards,