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Nikon D850 only runs for tens of minutes under BYN 2.1.2 before quiting:


fkleinha
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Nikon D850 repeatedly disconnects and BYN eventually crashes:

Nikon D850 disconnects after ~ 45 min and then more quickly on restarts until it won’t run at all.

Occurs on two systems and three cable set ups.  There are errors in the logs.

Most recent set up:

Lenovo T480s (circa 2018), Win 10 Pro 64, i5, 8 GB Ram, SSD:

This system was built fresh on a clean machine in April of 2021 so all software and drivers are the latest:

BYN v2.1.2

Nikon D850 cooled, moded from Central DS operated off its own high capacity 7.2 VDC battery.

Ascom 6.5SP1

AP Mount (CP4 controller with attached AP hand paddle); AP Ascom Driver V2_5.30.10

FTDI Serial link; laptop to mount

PHD2 V2.6.9

ZWO 290 Guide Camera and latest driver.

Sky Tools Pro 3 Planetarium Pgm Ver 3.2k

Temperhum (old)

In simulations the system does not crash, but does throw off error messages (see log).

Inside, warm, dry workroom.

Mount tracking, PHD2 cycling, no guiding, no dithering, image capture, say, every minute.

Outside for real:

50’s F and damp.

Mount tracking, PHD2 guiding, BYN capturing images and dithering, STP3 controlling mount.

Camera Connection Method One:

T480s to USB3 port to ~ 10 ft USB 3 cable to USB 3 hub (Aluratek unpowered).

Attached to hub are ZWO 290 guide, Temperhum, and D850 on short USB cable.

Since this failed I tried:

Camera Connection  Method Two:

T480s to USB3 port to ~ 10ft USB 3 extension cable (different than above) to short cable (different than above)  to D850.  The ZWO 290 and Temperhum are still on the USB 3  hub with its own USB computer port.

The camera quits after 30 to 60 minutes.  The camera shows an ERR which can be cleared (per the manual) by physically firing the camera shutter.  BYN shows the camera disconnected.  Sometimes the camera can be reconnected; sometimes not.

When not:  hitting connect superficially appears to reconnect the camera (so says the program), BUT the exposure buttons on the lower right are grayed out and the camera can not be operated.

Closing BYN and reopening does not fix the problem.  Eventually BYN will not even run.  At this point rebooting the computer still does not fix anything.  But the next nite is a fresh start.  I suspect all these details are noise.  The error logs hold the answer but I can not interpret the errors.

The disconnects/crashes seem to occur when BYN is busy  download a file or dithering. 

This exact same system running BYEOS V3.2.2 and a Canon 6D works perfectly all night.  Only the short cable from the hub to the Canon is different (of necessity).

I am sending the error logs as three files:

(1)  A typical BYEOS-Canon 6D run under the stars.

(2)  A simulated run (inside, warm, no guiding, no dithering) with BYN and the D850.  Camera runs, but with errors in Error Log.

(3)  An entire evening of BYN and D850 with repeated runs and crashes.

This is extremely frustrating as the camera yields beautiful images when it is running.

Similar problems occurred in the Fall of 2020 running on a T430s.  I was hoping the computer upgrade would fix the problems.

fritz kleinhans, Indianapolis, IN, USA.

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This is a confusing post. I get that sometime we ask for more details, but this is too much unrelated details. Sorry.

That aside, 99% of camera disconnect are due to some sort of environment issue.

Did you check to make sure your computer USB/HD/etc are not set to go to sleep after some time of inactivity?

Cable drag causing a disconnect?

 

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Try powering our USB3 Hub(s).  The Lenovo's are known to ONLY supply the bare minimum spec Power through it's USB Ports.

You are using USB3 Cables at the Max Length - if the Power Cables are anything less than 18-22ga then the Voltage Drop would likely cause problems powering downstream circuitry (whether in the Hub or the TemperHum or...  And the Lenovo has little chance to power the ZWO Guide Camera with much else attached except a direct cable.

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On 4/28/2021 at 9:56 PM, admin said:

This is a confusing post. I get that sometime we ask for more details, but this is too much unrelated details. Sorry.

That aside, 99% of camera disconnect are due to some sort of environment issue.

Did you check to make sure your computer USB/HD/etc are not set to go to sleep after some time of inactivity?

Cable drag causing a disconnect?

 

Thanks.  Sorry for the data overload:  None of these solutions help:

(1)  Through the mount cabling.  No drag.

(2)  Laptop set to always on.

(3)  Camera still fails when the camera is on its own USB line to Laptop.  Length may be an issue, power is not.

(4)  Same hardware and cabling runs Canon 6D all nite long.

(5)  The logs show the following error messages:  What do they mean?

(5a)  Occurs after 10's of successful exposures:

2021-03-27 22:26:43,582 [7] DEBUG - NIKON EVENT --> OnDeviceOnImageReady(79,type[5]) fired
2021-03-27 22:26:45,129 [6] DEBUG - NIKON EVENT --> OnDeviceOnImageReady(79,type[1]) fired
2021-03-27 22:26:45,269 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] ERROR - Error converting False to int32.
2021-03-27 22:26:45,269 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] ERROR - Input string was not in a correct format.
2021-03-27 22:26:45,269 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] ERROR -    at System.Number.StringToNumber(String str, NumberStyles

(5b)  The above errors are followed by errors such as these:

2021-04-12 23:30:15,253 [ProcessPreview(Normal)] ERROR - Out of memory.
2021-04-12 23:30:15,253 [ProcessPreview(Normal)] ERROR -    at System.Drawing.Graphics.CheckErrorStatus(Int32 status)
   at System.Drawing.Graphics.DrawImage(Image image, Int32 x, Int32 y, Int32 width, Int32 height)
   at System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(Image original, Int32 width, Int32 height)
   at System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(Image original)
   at BinaryRivers.Common.ImageLoader.GdJpgImageProvider.LoadImage(FileInfo file)
2021-04-12 23:30:15,839 [ProcessPreview(Normal)] DEBUG - Loading JPG image try 1/3 in progress...
2021-04-12 23:30:16,329 [ProcessPreview(Normal)] ERROR - JpgProvider.LoadJpgImageFile()
2021-04-12 23:30:16,329 [ProcessPreview(Normal)] ERROR - Out of memory.
2021-04-12 23:30:16,329 [ProcessPreview(Normal)] ERROR -    at System.Drawing.Graphics.CheckErrorStatus(Int32 status)
   at System.Drawing.Graphics.DrawImage(Image image, Int32 x, Int32 y, Int32 width, Int32 height)
   at System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(Image original, Int32 width, Int32 height)
   at System.Drawing.Bitmap..ctor(Image original)
   at BinaryRivers.Common.ImageLoader.JpgProvider.LoadJpgImageFile(FileInfo fileinfo, Boolean thumbnail)
2021-04-12 23:30:16,338 [ProcessPreview(Normal)] ERROR - Unable to load image file error
2021-04-12 23:30:16,338 [ProcessPreview(Normal)] ERROR -
2021-04-12 23:30:16,338 [ProcessPreview(Normal)] ERROR - img_1.JPG
2021-04-12 23:30:16,338 [ProcessPreview(Normal)] ERROR -

thanks

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11 hours ago, s3igell said:

Try powering our USB3 Hub(s).  The Lenovo's are known to ONLY supply the bare minimum spec Power through it's USB Ports.

You are using USB3 Cables at the Max Length - if the Power Cables are anything less than 18-22ga then the Voltage Drop would likely cause problems powering downstream circuitry (whether in the Hub or the TemperHum or...  And the Lenovo has little chance to power the ZWO Guide Camera with much else attached except a direct cable.

Thanks.  Didn't know about Lenovo problems.  This does not explain failure when camera is on its own direct USB line to Laptop.  No hub, nothing else.  Any way - This system can operate my Canon 6D, ZWO 290, and ThemperHum off of the hub just fine,  all nite long.  Something about BYN and D850 is very different than BYEOS and a 6D.

 

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9 hours ago, fkleinha said:

Thanks.  Didn't know about Lenovo problems.  This does not explain failure when camera is on its own direct USB line to Laptop.  No hub, nothing else.  Any way - This system can operate my Canon 6D, ZWO 290, and ThemperHum off of the hub just fine,  all nite long.  Something about BYN and D850 is very different than BYEOS and a 6D.

 

In this scenario, how long is the USB cable and is the cable a USB3 cable?  Is the USB port on the laptop USB3 or USB2?

 

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3 hours ago, admin said:

In this scenario, how long is the USB cable and is the cable a USB3 cable?  Is the USB port on the laptop USB3 or USB2?

 

I use a high quality (as best as I can determine) USB 3 extension cable of 10 ft length which connects to the D850 with a 1 foot cable.  The 10' extension cable is an AKOADA.   All the USB ports on the T480s are USB V 3.1 Gen 1.  The D850 gets one all to itself.  They do not go to sleep, otherwise it would not be possible for BYEOS and my Canon 6D to operate all nite long with this same setup.  All sleep modes are turned off.  Screen always on, CPU always on, storage is SSD.

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3 hours ago, astroman133 said:

Laptops have power saving features. You can tell the laptop to not shut down, but the USB ports can still be configured to shut down to save power. You should check the port properties!

I do not believe any ports are shut down.  As proof I note that this same configuration can operate BYEOS and my Canon 6D all nite long.

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25 minutes ago, fkleinha said:

I use a high quality (as best as I can determine) USB 3 extension cable of 10 ft length which connects to the D850 with a 1 foot cable.  The 10' extension cable is an AKOADA.   All the USB ports on the T480s are USB V 3.1 Gen 1.  The D850 gets one all to itself.  They do not go to sleep, otherwise it would not be possible for BYEOS and my Canon 6D to operate all nite long with this same setup.  All sleep modes are turned off.  Screen always on, CPU always on, storage is SSD.

That could be part of the issue.  The maximum cable length for USB3 protocol is 9 feet, you're at 11 feet with a connection in between.  In contrast, the cable length for USB2 is 15 feet.

Both the 6D and D850 will have different 'demands' on the actual data being transferred between the computer and the camera, we can't rule out a common denominator at this stage.

 

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46 minutes ago, admin said:

That could be part of the issue.  The maximum cable length for USB3 protocol is 9 feet, you're at 11 feet with a connection in between.  In contrast, the cable length for USB2 is 15 feet.

Both the 6D and D850 will have different 'demands' on the actual data being transferred between the computer and the camera, we can't rule out a common denominator at this stage.

 

From B&H I have ordered two new cables:  (1) A Tether Tools 10 ft USB 3 cable that will go straight from laptop to D850.  (2)  A Tether Tools 15 foot active USB cable.

 

42 minutes ago, admin said:

Posting a partial log here on the forum adds no value to the troubleshooting effort as the issue could be originating from an earlier error.

 

Send me the full log file.
 
 

 

 
 

Thanks.  I did send the logs but I think you were overwhelmed by everything I sent.  I will send less this time :)

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1 hour ago, fkleinha said:

From B&H I have ordered two new cables:  (1) A Tether Tools 10 ft USB 3 cable that will go straight from laptop to D850.  (2)  A Tether Tools 15 foot active USB cable.

 

Thanks.  I did send the logs but I think you were overwhelmed by everything I sent.  I will send less this time :)

Perhaps the solution to all my cable problems would be a Primaluce Eagle 4 on mount computer.  Are BYEOS/BYN and the Eagle known to play well together?

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I got the log files.  You're not doing the same thing in both log files, in once case you use start imaging, on the other you use a preview.  I can't really use them to compare.

I'm intrigued by the "2021-04-12 22:09:54,072 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] ERROR - Error converting False to int32." error, I'll continue looking into it.

 

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21 hours ago, admin said:

I got the log files.  You're not doing the same thing in both log files, in once case you use start imaging, on the other you use a preview.  I can't really use them to compare.

I'm intrigued by the "2021-04-12 22:09:54,072 [CameraTakePictureOnMessageRecieved] ERROR - Error converting False to int32." error, I'll continue looking into it.

 

Right:  In the first log file I am running the system indoors and there are log errors but the system does not quit.  In the second log file I am running under the stars.  Initially there are none fatal errors which do not shut imaging down, followed by a cascade of more errors which shut imaging down.  The system shuts down on its own (camera disconnected) and the camera goes to ERR status.  I did not shut it down in the second log.

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21 hours ago, admin said:

Also, please to Settings -> Advance Settings and select "Maximum Stability" and try again.

Today I will begin a massive testing campaign.  I will change settings to RAW only and Max Stability in advanced settings and start with only computer, camera, and one foot cable.  Report to follow.  Thanks

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That is a good approach.

For several models of Nikon cameras, Nikon only supports cameras that are directly connected to a PC. Check the manual for your model and follow Nikon's guidance. At least for testing you should avoid using a hub.

Also, there are unscrupulous vendors who sell cables that are longer than the USB spec allows. So stay under the spec limits.

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1 hour ago, astroman133 said:

That is a good approach.

For several models of Nikon cameras, Nikon only supports cameras that are directly connected to a PC. Check the manual for your model and follow Nikon's guidance. At least for testing you should avoid using a hub.

Also, there are unscrupulous vendors who sell cables that are longer than the USB spec allows. So stay under the spec limits.

Thanks, yes, but unfortunately I have to deal with the following fact.  I can do a full systems test indoors and the system runs for hours.  Outdoors under the stars it always quits in under an hour.  The only difference:

(i) Out of doors it is cooler and damper.  (ii)  PHD2 is actually guiding rather than just looping.  (iii)  BYN is dithering in addition to capturing frames.

 Thus the D850 runs indoors for hours while hooked to a hub at the end of a 10ft extension which also carries the guide camera and the TemperHum.  Superficially, it appears that the extra traffic involved in guiding and dithering is causing the crash.  It sure makes testing a  lot harder.

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I doubt that dithering is your issue, but that is easy enough to test. Just disable it. By definition you are not communicating with the Nikon when dithering is occurring.

However it does seem like a communication issue. What happens if you cable the Nikon directly to the PC (plugged into a USB port on one side) and the guide camera plugged into a hub connected to a USB port on the other side. Ports on opposite sides often use different internal hubs and by using the ports on both sides you are doing a kind of load balancing.

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1 hour ago, fkleinha said:

Thanks, yes, but unfortunately I have to deal with the following fact.  I can do a full systems test indoors and the system runs for hours.  Outdoors under the stars it always quits in under an hour.  The only difference:

(i) Out of doors it is cooler and damper.  (ii)  PHD2 is actually guiding rather than just looping.  (iii)  BYN is dithering in addition to capturing frames.

 Thus the D850 runs indoors for hours while hooked to a hub at the end of a 10ft extension which also carries the guide camera and the TemperHum.  Superficially, it appears that the extra traffic involved in guiding and dithering is causing the crash.  It sure makes testing a  lot harder.

Do you have your mount indoor, same computer indoor, same software running indoors, including guiding, etc..... I doubt.... so you cannot claim your indoor and outdoor setup are the same.... you are comparing apples to oranges.  There is something different in your outdoor setup....and this will take some time and some investigation to figure out.  Do not underestimate the smallest of things or connection.  This is a tough one to figure out for sure :(

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6 hours ago, fkleinha said:

Right:  In the first log file I am running the system indoors and there are log errors but the system does not quit.  In the second log file I am running under the stars.  Initially there are none fatal errors which do not shut imaging down, followed by a cascade of more errors which shut imaging down.  The system shuts down on its own (camera disconnected) and the camera goes to ERR status.  I did not shut it down in the second log.

Running D850, 1 ft cable, T480s, USB mouse, nothing else:  Two runs:  One for 2.5 hrs followed by one for 1 hrs.  Raw files only (camera and PC), Maximum Stability Mode.  No crash, no errors in Log Files during 2.5 hr run.  One hour run, no crash, the error: ERROR - Error converting False to int32 begins occurring after 5 min.  It is not fatal and does not stop image acquisition.

The second log I sent your (named TWO - - - ) is a full run under the stars.  It has many more varied errors.  They do not seem to have shut the camera down.  The crash occurs with a (i) Camera Disconnect Event and (ii) and ERR on the camera screen.

I am buying a USB extender cable (Tether Tools TetherPro USB 3.0 Active Extension Cable.  If that does not work, I will try a ROSE or IRCON active extension cable.  E.g.

Rose Electronics 32ft (10m), USB3.1 to USB3.1/USB2.0 Hybrid Cable CLK-AHTU05-AMAF010M

which uses an optical fibre for the 10 m run.

Debugging is hard because I have never had a crash while testing in my work room.  The only crash/shut downs have occurred during actual imaging under the stars.  My setup is portable so testing is a major hassle.  I.e. big heavy mount, etc.

clear skies, fritz k

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4 hours ago, admin said:

Do you have your mount indoor, same computer indoor, same software running indoors, including guiding, etc..... I doubt.... so you cannot claim your indoor and outdoor setup are the same.... you are comparing apples to oranges.  There is something different in your outdoor setup....and this will take some time and some investigation to figure out.  Do not underestimate the smallest of things or connection.  This is a tough one to figure out for sure :(

Thanks, Yes, this is tough one.  As I have tried to indicate:  The indoor and out door tests are identical except for the following facts:  It is colder and damper outside.  PHD2 is guiding rather than looping.  BYN is dithering; AND inside, the hub, D850, guide camera, and TemperHum are all sitting on my desk top instead of on the scope (a small lens with a deep filter is on the D850, so it is truly imaging with 4 min exposures).  All the hardware (including mount and astrograph), all the cables; everything is the same except for the points just mentioned.   I have  considering putting an artificial star on a laptop screen and guiding on it.  This inside setup had never crashed, after many tests and hours of running (no matter the long cable and 'overloaded hub).  Because this setup failed in the field last Fall, I came prepared this spring with some 'backup plans'.  Namely move the D850 to its own USB 3 line.  As I have reported here, that still fails.  Testing is not so easy because (i) I am 77 and (ii) it takes hours to set up, test for hours, and then tear back down.  I can not leave stuff set up outside my  apartment overnite; it would be gone in the morning :(  (My usual AP is done a week at a time at dark observing fields.) My plan now is to wait till I get new cables: (i) an active extension cable and (ii) a true extender with optical fibre and test these.  If that does not work, I'll try MaximDL.  If that does not work, I'll have a really cheap Central DS cooled, moded, D850 for sale.  It is not really feasible to use a shorter USB 3 cable, e.g. 6 feet.  From camera, through mount, and to my operating table (just beyond swing of scope) is a min of 9 feet.

After looking over my Log files some more, I have concluded that most of the numerous errors are probably spurious.  Aside from the fact that imaging is obviously terminated, the overt signs of a crash are (i)  BYN says camera 'Disconnected' and (ii) the camera says ERR which must be cleared by manually and physically firing the shutter button on the camera body.  As my buddies wife, Anitra, says to both of us "Tell me again - You are having fun?"

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5 hours ago, astroman133 said:

I doubt that dithering is your issue, but that is easy enough to test. Just disable it. By definition you are not communicating with the Nikon when dithering is occurring.

However it does seem like a communication issue. What happens if you cable the Nikon directly to the PC (plugged into a USB port on one side) and the guide camera plugged into a hub connected to a USB port on the other side. Ports on opposite sides often use different internal hubs and by using the ports on both sides you are doing a kind of load balancing.

Thanks:  As I note else where, I have a big rig which takes an entire evening to set up, test, and tear back down.  Typically, this rig only gets used when I am setup and out in the field for a week.  I can report that the last configuration used and not working was the following:

T480s left USB 3 port running D850.  T480s left USB C/Thunderbolt port with adapter to USB 3 and running the hub with guide camera and Temperhum.  Right USB 3 port running FTDI serial adapter running mount.  Mouse on Bluetooth.

Dithering and communicating:  I do not know:  Is it possible images are still down loading from the Nikon when dithering is started?  It's hard to know how the USB ports are rigged inside the laptop.  But the camera is on the left side and the mount dithering is on the right side.

Thanks for thinking about this Rick.  I often see you on the Images Plus blog (unless I have my names garbled).

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I looked at the convert error you are getting in the logs, and it's a non-issue.  BYN captures all camera events fired, and I only process those that BYN required.  The conversion error stems from an unused event that BYN is not using.  Just ignore those.

In your post above you state "Namely move the D850 to its own USB 3 line.  As I have reported here" and that still fails.  Let's focus on this alone for now.  How long is that USB cable?  Where is the USB cable connected into (a hub, on the laptop directly), etc... ?

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Fritz,

Yes, I thought that I recognized your name, but could not remember where from.

I understand about how involved and time-consuming it is to set up your gear, so when you do it is important to make the most of it.

The following snippet is from the T480s User Guide.

image.png.de062a8f880372c55e27dc0e754b8dff.png

I take it that you are using port #5 for the camera since none of the other ports are described as USB 3.0 ports. This port has various user-configurable power settings, including staying on whenever the computer is connected to A/C power, even if the computer is powered down or hibernating. How do you have it configured?

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3 hours ago, admin said:

I looked at the convert error you are getting in the logs, and it's a non-issue.  BYN captures all camera events fired, and I only process those that BYN required.  The conversion error stems from an unused event that BYN is not using.  Just ignore those.

In your post above you state "Namely move the D850 to its own USB 3 line.  As I have reported here" and that still fails.  Let's focus on this alone for now.  How long is that USB cable?  Where is the USB cable connected into (a hub, on the laptop directly), etc... ?

Thanks, Right.  I too have concluded that the errors shown in the Log may not relate to the issues here.  I only have one or two nites with multiple failures under the stars using my latest configuration.

Specifically:

Data Stream:  D850 to Nikon provided 1 ft USB connector cable to 10 ft USB 3 extension (brand AKOADA with gold contacts) to left USB 3 port on T480s.  Nothing else is on this line.  This failed about 6 times over the course of two nights.  I concur with your universal statement that it is always (99%) the cables and contacts that are at fault.  In support of this is the observation that repeated failures during the nite occur at shorter and shorter intervals.  Starting at an hour and dropping to perhaps in ten minutes.

(Due to the difficulty of running tests at home under the stars, I have not been able to test with the latest settings:  Raw only, Maximum Stability)

As previously reported, I have never been able to force a failure in my work room even with my original configuration of D850 to 2 ft connector to USB 3 hub (with guide camera and Temperhum also) to 10 ft extension to T480s left USB 3 port.

Thanks for staying on this.  Soon we will have to wait for new tests under the stars with new better cables.

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Do you have a USB port on the other side of the laptop?  If yes try that port, even if it's a USB2 port. 

Most laptop with USB ports on both sides of the laptop will often run off a separate USB bus inside the laptop and in the off chance that the left side could be over saturated with data, the right side might not be. It's worth a try.

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