5X Zoom centering issue

[corduroy]

Hello,  I have an issue with a fresh install of BYEOS on a new laptop. I am using a T2i attached to a AT72 scope.  I use frame and focus to perform my one star alignment. If I center a star in the standard screen it does not appear in the 5X FOV.   If I center the a star in the 5X screen, the star is outide of the centered zoom box on the 0X screen.  Any ideas what I am doing wrong?

 

Here are some screen grabs:

 

Close to center on main 0x screen

 

Not in 5x FOV

 

Center on 5X screen

 

Star it outside zoom box to the lower Right

 

 

Thanks,

Matt

 

[admin]

Here are the guiding principals

 

- DO NOT center a star using 5x ZOOM

- DO center a star using regular live view... YOU CAN use the zoom slider instead in the zoombox for magnification, this is why it is there.

 

The reason you can not and should not use 5x Zoom to center a star is because Canon is not consistent in positioning the 5x zoom rectangle... it moves it in chunks of pixels and as a result the regular the 5x zoom rectangle is never/rarely positioned where you want it to.

 

In contrast, using the zoom slider in the zoom box uses a digital zoom of the full live view frame so you are 100% guaranteed it is centered.

 

Regards,

[corduroy]

Thank you Guylain!

[astroman133]

So are you saying that the zoom box is not, by default, centered in the full FOV? Or that if you move it there is no way to automatically re-center it? or both?

 

I have used LiveView 5X and 10X zoom quite a bit for mount alignment with no issue, but never after I have moved the zoom box.

[admin]

So are you saying that the zoom box is not, by default, centered in the full FOV? Or that if you move it there is no way to automatically re-center it? or both?

 

I have used LiveView 5X and 10X zoom quite a bit for mount alignment with no issue, but never after I have moved the zoom box.

 

It is centered by default... but as soon as you change the location all bets are off and every camera model is different in terms of the chunk size used.  Typically a move is made in chunks of 60 to 100 pixels.

 

Regards,

[cjszoo]

I am seeing the same change, in 316 the center (cross-hairs) where centered in relation to whatever star i was aligning and focusing on, no matter if 1x or 5x in both my 600d and 6d. I may have just not noticed any offset but they were always at least close and in the field of view.

After upgrading to 317 this is no longer the case. I uninstalled/reinstalled over it, thought i had a PC issue.

If i read the above correctly, you are saying the cross-hairs (and rectangle) are only valid for the small zoom box on the right. Since both my camera's worked fine prior to the upgrade i question the change but i only have two models and you have to find the happy median for everyone/every model camera, i get that and do agree with your decision given the explanation as i understand it.

This does make 5x in frame and focus pretty useless to me now, and does reduce the functionality of the application to me. i assume (and hope not) that this is also the case in planetary mode as well?

Since I wasn't experiencing any issues that were corrected in 317 and do not see any benefit (to me) in upgrading, i will go back to 316 to regain the functionality i used every single imaging session. Having the 5x zoom on a larger area helped me see focus at distance easier (laptop generally 10'-15' away). If i had a motorized focuser it probably wouldn't impact me much, if at all.

However i do agree that you must move forward and correct something that adversely impacts more camera models than not. The only thing i can think of to assist here would be to have a small 1x window with a rectangle that could be dragged around to reflect its location when in 5x, similar to sharpcapture and ezcap (QHY). At the focal lengths i use, hunting a star in 5x outside the fov is time consuming and also makes it difficult when trying to center for culmination using de-focused stars on axis, here again my distance from the laptop when standing at the mount comes into play or i would use the smaller view on the right.

316 worked flawlessly for me and i am happy with that. This in no way impacts my opinion of the application as a whole.

 

Let me know if i am misunderstanding anything here.

Many thanks and keep up the good work!

[admin]

Nothing has changed in 5X zoom behavior since BYE 1.0.0.

 

You get the same behavior as you always did.

 

The crosshair is only reliable in non 5x zoom.  It has always been like that.  Think about it for a few seconds... if you move the zoom box... then click 5x zoom... the zoom rectangle is no longer centered on the sensor... so any crosshair centered in the 5x zoom rectangle is NOT representative of the sensor center.  Hope this makes sense.

 

The only time where the crosshair and 5X zoom are accurately representing the sensor center is if you did not moved the zoom rectangle in the first place.

 

I'm pretty sure you did not perform the same steps if you do not get the same result in 3.1.6 versus 3.1.7.

 

Regards,

[admin]

Nothing has changed in 5X zoom behavior since BYE 1.0.0.

 

You get the same behavior as you always did.

 

The crosshair is only reliable in non 5x zoom.  It has always been like that.  Think about it for a few seconds... if you move the zoom box... then click 5x zoom... the zoom rectangle is no longer centered on the sensor... so any crosshair centered in the 5x zoom rectangle is NOT representative of the sensor center.  Hope this makes sense.

 

The only time where the crosshair and 5X zoom are accurately representing the sensor center is if you did not moved the zoom rectangle in the first place.

 

I'm pretty sure you did not perform the same steps if you do not get the same result in 3.1.6 versus 3.1.7.

 

Regards,

 

Ummm, not so sure about this anymore... 

 

Running some tests and you are right... the 5x zoom rectangle is not centered in 3.1.7 and it is in 3.1.6.

 

I need to fix this.  Thank you so much for reporting this.

 

Regards,

[admin]

I am seeing the same change, in 316 the center (cross-hairs) where centered in relation to whatever star i was aligning and focusing on, no matter if 1x or 5x in both my 600d and 6d. I may have just not noticed any offset but they were always at least close and in the field of view.

After upgrading to 317 this is no longer the case. I uninstalled/reinstalled over it, thought i had a PC issue.

If i read the above correctly, you are saying the cross-hairs (and rectangle) are only valid for the small zoom box on the right. Since both my camera's worked fine prior to the upgrade i question the change but i only have two models and you have to find the happy median for everyone/every model camera, i get that and do agree with your decision given the explanation as i understand it.

This does make 5x in frame and focus pretty useless to me now, and does reduce the functionality of the application to me. i assume (and hope not) that this is also the case in planetary mode as well?

Since I wasn't experiencing any issues that were corrected in 317 and do not see any benefit (to me) in upgrading, i will go back to 316 to regain the functionality i used every single imaging session. Having the 5x zoom on a larger area helped me see focus at distance easier (laptop generally 10'-15' away). If i had a motorized focuser it probably wouldn't impact me much, if at all.

However i do agree that you must move forward and correct something that adversely impacts more camera models than not. The only thing i can think of to assist here would be to have a small 1x window with a rectangle that could be dragged around to reflect its location when in 5x, similar to sharpcapture and ezcap (QHY). At the focal lengths i use, hunting a star in 5x outside the fov is time consuming and also makes it difficult when trying to center for culmination using de-focused stars on axis, here again my distance from the laptop when standing at the mount comes into play or i would use the smaller view on the right.

316 worked flawlessly for me and i am happy with that. This in no way impacts my opinion of the application as a whole.

 

Let me know if i am misunderstanding anything here.

Many thanks and keep up the good work!

 

Oh boy, I'm sorry... my bad.

 

YOU ARE CORRECT!

 

3.1.6 works fine and 3.1.7 is broken.  I have just fixed this and I will be releasing 3.1.8 in a day or 2 with this fix.

 

Regards,

[astroman133]

And hopefully support for the T6i???

[admin]

And hopefully support for the T6i???

 

The 1300D / T6 yes.  I still need the user with the T6i to reply with the information I need first.  If he does then yes the T6i will be in.

 

Thanks,

[baron555]

Here are the guiding principals

 

- DO NOT center a star using 5x ZOOM

- DO center a star using regular live view... YOU CAN use the zoom slider instead in the zoombox for magnification, this is why it is there.

 

The reason you can not and should not use 5x Zoom to center a star is because Canon is not consistent in positioning the 5x zoom rectangle... it moves it in chunks of pixels and as a result the regular the 5x zoom rectangle is never/rarely positioned where you want it to.

 

In contrast, using the zoom slider in the zoom box uses a digital zoom of the full live view frame so you are 100% guaranteed it is centered.

 

Regards,

 

 

Well...."Why didn't you say that in the first place!"

 

I have worked with the same Normal View to 5X view shift issue for a while now.....and now know what to use instead.

 

This was causing headaches trying to use the frame and focus option....trying to prefocus using normal view and then tweaking it using 5X view.

 

Now I know.  Prefocus with normal view then use the Zoom slider located under the Zoom Box Center side window for fine tuning the focus.

[admin]

Well...."Why didn't you say that in the first place!"

 

I have worked with the same Normal View to 5X view shift issue for a while now.....and now know what to use instead.

 

This was causing headaches trying to use the frame and focus option....trying to prefocus using normal view and then tweaking it using 5X view.

 

Now I know.  Prefocus with normal view then use the Zoom slider located under the Zoom Box Center side window for fine tuning the focus.

 

No, you read this wrong!!!

 

You can use the 5x zoom for focus, I never said you can not and should not.

 

What I said is you should not use 5x for centering if you move the zoom box.  That is it.

 

Regards,

[Jim]

guyroch, on 24 Jul 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

 

3.1.6 works fine and 3.1.7 is broken.  I have just fixed this and I will be releasing 3.1.8 in a day or 2 with this fix.

 

 

Guy,

 

I also had noticed this and didn't bother raising it as it already had been posted. Will you be issuing 3.1.8 shortly as I do as per your recommendation of centring on x1 and then fine focus using x5 (and a Bahtinov mask), and confirmation of the focus by taking a short duration preview picture like the attached (very poor seeing).

 

Regards

 

Jim

[astroman133]

Jim,

 

Per Guylain's previous note, 3.1.8 will be released shortly.

 

I would also say that when he said that you should not use 5X zoom for centering he meant that you should not use 5X zoom for mount alignment, especially after you have moved the Zoom Box.

[admin]

I'm leaving for a week long star party in a few hours and won't be back until August 8th.  I'm reluctant to release anything before leaving in case something goes wrong.

 

In the meantime, if you want the 5x zoom rectangle to positioned correctly I would recommend that you use 3.1.6 until 3.1.8 is released.   

 

Sorry for the delay but playing safe has serve me well in the past whereas rushing it did not always

 

Regards,

[Jim]

Rick,

 

That was what I meant as well, I do all the mount alignment at x1 :^))

 

I just use x 5 for visual focus adjustment (and planetary of course), then back to x1 to take a preview pick (large JPG) so I can get a good view of the Bhatinov pattern, going back and forth until I'm happy. Typically the seeing where I live is quite poor so trying to focus on any live screen is nearly impossible as everything is dancing around too much, whereas a quick preview picture provides a much more stable comparison as focus is adjusted.

 

Regards

 

Jim

[Jim]

Have a good trip and clear skies, Guy

 

(Have to admit I am a bit of a kid in the back seat when I have to wait for things, "Are we there yet" :^))

 

Jim

[astroman133]

Jim,

 

If the FWHM is showing the effects of poor seeing, you can settle it down by increasing the "FWHM Average" setting in the Live View settings group. I believe that the default value is 10. I would try increasing it to 15 or 20 and see if that settles the value down.

[corduroy]

Which Star Party Guylain?  I will be at the Julian, California Starfest next week.

 

I'm leaving for a week long star party in a few hours and won't be back until August 8th.  I'm reluctant to release anything before leaving in case something goes wrong.

 

In the meantime, if you want the 5x zoom rectangle to positioned correctly I would recommend that you use 3.1.6 until 3.1.8 is released.   

 

Sorry for the delay but playing safe has serve me well in the past whereas rushing it did not always

 

Regards,

[admin]

Which Star Party Guylain?  I will be at the Julian, California Starfest next week.

 

I'm going to Starfest in Ontario Canada.

 

http://www.nyaa.ca/index.php?page=/sf16/sf.home16

 

Regards,

[cjszoo]

Oh boy, I'm sorry... my bad.

 

YOU ARE CORRECT!

 

3.1.6 works fine and 3.1.7 is broken.  I have just fixed this and I will be releasing 3.1.8 in a day or 2 with this fix.

 

Regards,

 

Great!

I think using the term "cross hair" caused some confusion, i should have used "fov box" or something like that.

Thank you so much for looking into it, much appreciated.

Enjoy the trip... I hope you have better weather than we do. i don't think i have seen more than 10 clear nights so far this year and only one was what i would consider good.

This weather pattern seemed to start around the lunar eclipse last Sept and hasn't changed much since. Rain and flooding and its almost August.... a first for me without a hurricane coming up from the gulf. I am almost certain you will have 3.1.8 out before i see another clear night.

 

Many thanks!

[helmbier]

3.1.6 works fine and 3.1.7 is broken.

 

 

I can't fully agree.

I have 2 DSLR's of the same type (D500/T1i). Both are showing the same 5X centering shift with BYE 3.1.6. The center of the 5X zoom box is a little bit down and left, not as extreme as in 3.1.7, but the shift is clearly visible.

Try following: Center the zoom box on the camera's live view screen. Connect to BYE 3.1.6, go to the Frame&Focus Tab and activate the 5X zoom. Disconnect the camera and go to the cameras live view screen again. There the zoom box is no more centered. In my case the zoom box is shifted one (camera) cursor-click to the left and one click down.

I'm using BYE not only for taking pretty pictures, but I'm building also the models for my GM1000HPS. Therefore the 5X issue is a little bit annoying. I think you can use the 5X zoom for making models, but be aware that you introduce an offset to the model and that the mount will miss the target by the amount of this offset, which will only be evident at higher magnifications.

I hope You can fix this and I wish you some good days on your trip to Ontario.

 

Helmar