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S-D

Question

Hello.

 

I just downloaded the trial version of BYE and have to say, despite all of the posts about difficulties with the older Canon 350D, I was able to connect with no issues.

 

I realize the 350D is an older model and many features won't be supported, but I am unable to successfully take any test shots and am wondering what I might be doing incorrectly.

 

I watched the video presentation all the way through and loved it, but it didn't really cover the differences in functionality for older cameras.

 

Here is what happens:

 

I am able to connect; once in the imaging section, the Camera Information Center is mostly empty and Quality is set to "IMAGE_UNKOWN+".  Is this normal?

 

In the Capture Plan Center, none of the options in the Shutter dropdown seem to work.  I know that bulb will not work without DSUSB, which I do not have, but I was hoping another option would work.  The error I get no matter what I try is:  "ERROR EDS_ERR_NOT_SUPPORTED : EDSDK.EdsSetPropertyData(cameraRef, SaveTo(11), 0, size(4), 2)"

 

I guess my question is: is there much I can do with the camera I have without DSUSB?

 

I know that many features won't work, like Live View, etc., but I was hoping that even so, there would be a number of things I could control.

 

Thanks very much for taking the time to read this and for any help anyone can offer.

 

S-D

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You should be using Canon215 with the T5i as it was release in 2013.  But most DIGIC IV and V were ported seamlessly in the newer SDK files so the most recent Canon drivers in BYE should also work without any issues or differences.

 

Regards,

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S-D

nothing says you cant hook up your camera during the day indoors to test and get used to working with BYE. if you have a lens that's ok or just set up on a covered porch with your scope if it is raining.

its always better to do some trials during the day when you can see what you are doing. this new camera may need some different settings on the camera menus and maybe BYE. 

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Hi Jim.

 

Yep, I did hook it up inside and used all the different modes, focusing, 5X zoom, etc.  Was able to take some test bulb shots and AVIs.

 

All seems to be working great.

 

I had read a number of issues people have had on this forum and I watched Guylain's video presentation, so I was pretty confortable with BYE.

 

Once the weather clears up and I'm able to get out with the scope we'll see how things go.  perhaps my inexperience will show it's true colors then.  :)

 

As long as I'm having fun and learning and improving my skills, I'll be happy.  :)

 

S-D

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S-D

sounds like you are well on your way. just hone your skills every chance you get and you will have fun.

have you decided what parts of the sky you want to explore, deep space, solar system, etc. or all of the above.

 

Iv been a captive of El-Niño for the last 9 months clouds would roll in about 5:00 pm almost every night.

of course I am also cursed with one of three strikes either clouds, wind 10+ mph (north in the winter, south in the summer), or a almost or full moon.

so my opportunities have been limited but things are looking better as it gets closer to summer.

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I'm not sure yet.  Seems like the solar system objects are an easy target, but the deep space stuff is much more exciting to me.

 

I've been reading up on dark, flat and bias frames and how to stack them.  The flats are the ones that I don't fully understand yet.  There is a lot of information about where the shot should be in the histogram and how much light should be aimed for based on the camera, but it's still a bit mysterious to me.

 

I'm guessing I will have to master these to do deep space, since I will be shooting many 30 second exposures (don't have autoguiding).

 

Hopefully your weather will clear soon.

 

We've had a mixture of several clear warm nights and several cloudy/rainy nights.  I think after tonight I will have a few clear nights to get out.

 

S-D

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Flats are relatively Easy, too...

 

Don't worry too much about "Exact Histogram" requirements.

In general, you want the Histogram to be between the 1/3rd and 2/3rds hash-lines (closer to 2/3rds if you can).

 

You can either use a fine White Cloth (like a White T-shirt)over the Objective and point the Scope at a Cloudless part of the Sky Opposite the Sun and Moon at Dawn or Dusk, or at a well-and-evenly-lit Wall, or if you have a large Laptop LCD with a Blank White Screen...

Just don't rotate the Camera or change the Focuser location or try to Blow-off any Dust - you want everything just where/as it is...

 

Set the BYE Image Type to "Flat" and the Mode to either AV-Flat or TV and keep the ISO the same as the Lights, and take a small number of Test Shots.  Then review the Histograms.  

If you are using TV and need to move the Peak to the Right, then set a Longer Exposure.

If using AV-Flat, then on the Camera's Body change the Exposure Compensation to "+2".

Try again...  (This is another thing where you want some Indoors/Porch Practice - the "Good Part of Dawn's Early Light" doesn't last Too Long...

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Thanks s3igell.

 

That is a huge help.

 

One question, though.  If you are shooting flats before your night of shooting, how do you know where the focuser should be if you havent focussed on you object yet?  Or the camera angle for that matter.

 

Do you have to wait until the next day to shoot flats?

 

Thanks so much for the help.

 

S-D

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I would suggest shooting your flats after you shoot the lights.  That way the camera orientation and focuser will be set as they were for your lights.

 

The most convenient way to shoot flats is with an artificial light source like a light box or electro-luminescent panel or a piece of poster board on a nearby wall. If you are using the sky as your light source then it is more tricky because the timing is critical and during dusk or dawn the brightness always changing.

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I too would suggest "Wait until After..."  This is because you never know what Settings and Orientation you'll end up using in order to get you Imaging Session underway - and the last thing you want is to be constrained by something as simple to do afterwards as Flats...

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Without the DSUSB cable you are unable to take BULB exposures. So you will have to take Tv exposures < 30 seconds.

 

You must be running a 32-bit version of Windows, and you have to choose the oldest of the Canon SDKs (Canon210) because Canon has dropped support for DIGIC II cameras from the later SDKs.

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S-D

I to like to take Deep space objects I have yet to use flats. but I will in the future.

in the beginning I would wait on the flats for now concentrate on camera setup, exposure duration, guiding, post possessing, etc..

you will get some nice shots with just lights and darks. with a decent mount you should be able to take shots of about 60 seconds without guiding.

my scope is a F/4 so I have been able to get shots of the Orion nebula without guiding.

I use Image plus for post possessing it is reasonably priced. and still has a version that works on a 32 bit computer.

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Thanks for the advice Jim.  I really appreciate it.

 

I am learning so much from everyone here.  :)

 

I've been using Raw Therapy (free RAW photo editor).   Seems to be pretty good for being free.  As I get into it more I may have to switch to something more astrophotography based.

 

S-D

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S-D,

 

I initially got some pleasing results with just taking lights and then processing the results in Pixinsight, making use of its Dynamic Background Extraction module. Not as good as using Darks, Flats, etc. but pleasing results never the less while I was learning.

 

Jim

 

P.S. Pixinsight is not free, or simple to use, but it is very powerful :^))

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S-D

I don't know if "Raw Therapy" will stack photos as I am totally unfamiliar with that software.  

 

but I believe the two pieces of software mentioned above are two of the most used along with Photoshop.

 

I take darks by putting the "body cap" on the camera after taking a series of lights .

just set the camera on the table next to the laptop while breaking down my telescope and mount

 

I usually use about 20 lights and 20 darks. stacked together.

usually comes out pretty good for a beginner.

I have had a lot of people say they were really good but they were not into astrophotography.

 

I am sure you are well on your way now, just keep playing with it and you will get better and better.

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Jim

 

No it doesn't stack, but I think there are several free stacking programs out there.  My understanding was I could stack with one program and then bring the results into Raw Therapy for processing.

 

I also read that you can take a number of darks and keep them as a library and then you only need to update them once a year or so.  I'm not sure if this is correct or if you should take new ones with ever session.

 

I will definitely keep what you are saying in mind.  I think maybe through trial and error and the great advice I'm getting from others, I will slowly be able to learn and improve my photos.

 

Thanks.

 

S-D

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S-D

I don't think you can make a library of darks because the temperature of the camera comes into play.

that is why you take them as soon as you can after you take the lights. that way the noise created by the heat of the sensor can be subtracted from the lights.

 

you may want to look at bias frames also they are taken at normal temp as fast as the camera can take them and are easy to create.

 

I just started a thread on flats in the "general heading"  we both might learn something from that thread.

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S-D,

 

Raw Therapee is not specifically designed for astrophotography and as you become more advanced, you will find that it will not do what you need.

 

In my DSLR processing workflow, the first step is to convert from CR2 to FITS. Then image calibration (applying darks and flats) is done on each light frame image.  The images are normalized, graded, aligned, and finally combined (stacked). I can continue to work with the combined FITS file or convert it to TIFF to allow different software to read and work with it. At this point, I am beyond where Raw Therapee would be of any use.

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Any recomendation on a replacement?

 

I really wasn't in the market for a new camera, so $400 or $500 is about all I am hoping to spend.

 

Is that even realistic?

 

I inherited the 350D from my father when he passed away so it has incredible sentimental value, but it seems to get it to work for astrophotography, it will be increasingly expensive to support.

 

Thanks very much for any advice and all the help.

 

S-D

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It is difficult to make a smart recommendation for a replacement camera without knowing more than just your budget. 

 

How do you intend to use it? 

Do you intend to have it modified?

What is the rest of your optical train?

What are the sky conditions like at a typical photography site?

 

Answers to the above questions can help to make a smart buying decision.

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S-D

I don't think you can make a library of darks because the temperature of the camera comes into play.

that is why you take them as soon as you can after you take the lights. that way the noise created by the heat of the sensor can be subtracted from the lights.

Many of us DO make Libraries of our Darks, as Darks Stacking only requires that the Sensor Temps toughly match within about 5*F between Lights and Darks.

In fact, that is one of the reasons why BYE/BYN processes the Images in order to extract the Sensor Temp from EXIF Data out to the Filename.

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In my DSLR processing workflow, the first step is to convert from CR2 to FITS. Then image calibration (applying darks and flats) is done on each light frame image.  The images are normalized, graded, aligned, and finally combined (stacked). I can continue to work with the combined FITS file or convert it to TIFF to allow different software to read and work with it. At this point, I am beyond where Raw Therapee would be of any use.

Support for Canon CR2 and Nikon NEF formats are directly incorporated into DSS and PixInsight and Nebulosity.  So, there is less need to first Convert to a Generic Format such as FITS, and less need for FITS-Converters which are most all rather Long-in-the-Tooth and not guranteed to support the latest DSLRs...

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I am new to astrophotograpy (very new).

I probably wouldn't have it modified, as I don't know enough yet to take such a step.

I have a Celestron NexStar 127 slt

Extremely light polluted

 

Thanks again.

 

S-D

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Sorry, missed the first question.

 

I'm hoping to take planetary and deep space photos, in conjunction with my scope.

 

Thanks again.

S-D

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The workflow that I described is that of ImagesPlus.  IP does a conversion from RAW (CR2 or NEF) to FITS as its initial processing step.  This allows the subsequent steps to be identical regardless of whether the camera was a DSLR or a CCD that produces FITS files out of the camera.

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First, this is just my opinion, so consider it as just a single data point,

 

Second, I would suggest that you not try photography with the 127 SLT. Here is my reasoning.

 

1) It is an alt-az mount so field rotation will be an issue for long exposure photos of deep sky objects.

2) It is an alt-az mount so you will not be able to autoguide for long exposures. 

3) The focal length is not really long enough for planetary work, except perhaps the moon. You really need a focal length in excess of 4000 mm for planetary imaging.

4) The visual back is 1.25" so with the large chip of the DSLR you will get pretty bad vignetting.

5) It may be tricky to balance the scope with a camera attached at prime focus, and even if you could balance it in altitude by adding a counter weight at the front it would cause additional wear on the azimuth motor and gears.  I believe that the gears are plastic or nylon.

 

Instead, I would recommend putting any discretionary money into a good (better than entry level) German Equatorial GOTO mount. Consider a Celestron AVX, or comparable, with a good quality 3-element apochromatic refractor with a 3 or 4 inch aperture and a focal ratio of f/5-f/7 as a good starting place.

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Thanks for all the information everyone.  I really am learning a ton.  :)

 

I have a question; Isn't the point of shooting in RAW that you are able to adjust exposure, white balance etc. after the fact, if needbe?

 

If you convert from CR2 to FITS, do you loose that ability, or is FITS also a RAW format?

 

My assumption is that this is the workflow:

 

1. convert

2. stack

3. process

 

Is this correct?

 

If so, where would you do any adjusting to exposure, etc.?  If in step 3, isn't it too late to do any RAW adjustments.

 

Thanks for everyone's help, advice and patience.  It really is so cool to have access to such a great group of people with an incredible amount of combined experience in an environment that is so supportive of astrophotography.

 

S-D

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